10 Things I Learned from Lyon vs. Fiorentina

By: Inara | September 17th, 2008

In lieu of a proper match review, I present you with this. Match highlights and photos at the end of the post.

1. When picking Brazilians, it’s Ederson you want. Leave Fred behind with the rest of the garbage.

I don’t mean to come off as a Fred hater, but did he accomplish ANYTHING in today’s match – besides the countless times he squandered easy shots on goal? Yeah, yeah, I know, Fred creates space for Karim Benzema. But if that’s all he does, I’d rather see Frederic Piquionne play up front in that case. While Fred may have been hot shit three years ago, his career has been on a steady decline, and he can’t even muster up a decent shot on goal. Forget actually scoring. Any more displays like this, and Piquionne will be owning that #2 striker spot.

Fred was a waste of air.

2. Lyon need to find a working CB pair ASAP.

Alright, so I understand why Puel chose the back four he put out today. Cris has been utter crap these past couple of weeks (he was the one responsible for both of Nice’s goals), so I get why Puel didn’t want him on the pitch tonight. Mathieu Bodmer, on the other hand, has been stellar in every single instance that he’s played as a defender this season. Ditto for Jean-Alain Boumsong, who hasn’t put a foot wrong since arriving from Juventus eight months ago (remember him against Manchester United?).

Logically, it all made sense. In fact, I was one of the people clamoring for this pairing because they’ve looked really well in previous outings (whereas Cris has only looked rusty). It’s just too bad that it was going to be this night of all nights when things finally exploded. I don’t know who Puel will select for the Bayern game, but here’s hoping that Cris will return to form immediately.

3. Speaking of the defense, how about that left back spot?

As horrible as the noveau Chuckle Brothers were, the person at fault for both of Fiorentina’s goals was Kim Kallstrom, who failed to make any contribution tonight, both offensively and defensively. He played in this position against St. Etienne a few weeks ago, but there’s a huge gap between Les Verts and La Viola. Kallstrom was confused all evening, and coupled with the incompetence of Bodmer and Boumsong, he ran around like a headless chicken and failed to mark his man.

If you’re wondering why John Mensah didn’t get the nod, since he played in this position much more effectively over the weekend, it’s because he was unjustly arrested and brutalized by French police Sunday night, and there were concerns over his mental and physical fitness. But in hindsight, an emotionally disturbed Mensah would have been better than a useless Kallstrom.

OL defense was incredibly slapdash.

4. Lyon were far and away the best team tonight. But that’s not good enough.

Besides the two goals, gifts to Fiorentina courtesy of our Three Stooges in the back, Lyon dominated the match, were dangerous from the first minute to the last, created tons of chances, and played the sort of fluid attacking football that everyone likes to see. However, though Lyon were the best team, they weren’t the most realistic. It’s not enough to be better than the other team. You have to be able to put away your chances, and that’s something Lyon didn’t do time and again. Whereas Fiorentina took the few chances they had and created two goals out of them. It took Lyon twice as many chances to do the same, despite the fact that they had home court advantage and the bulk of the possession.

5. Lyon are starting to become a second half team.

On one hand, it’s nice to know that Lyon have the mental fortitude to come back from a two goal deficit. That, and Puel has a damn good half time talk. Last year, this wouldn’t have been the case. But chasing isn’t as hard as killing, and Lyon’s biggest weakness remains their inability to hold onto a lead (something that Fiorentina also ought to learn). It would also be reassuring if Lyon could begin a match as strongly as they end it, as opposed to the wishy washy way they spend the first 45 minutes of the game.

6. Karim Benzema won’t be around the save Lyon forever.

Today I saw something truly frightening. Karim Benzema, the truly phenomenal striker that saves Lyon from utter ruin every other minute, was the brightest spot on both sides of the the pitch tonight. He was shining so brightly that it’s obvious the rest of Lyon can no longer keep up with him. Right now, most of Lyon’s attacks go through Benzema. But what if he’s injured, and in the long run, what will we do if he leaves? We’re going to lose Benzema sooner or later (though I hope it’s later), and games like these serve to remind us that he really does deserve to be playing for the best team in the world.

Benzegoal to the rescue…again.

7. Every point – and every goal – counts in this group.

Even though Lyon and Fiorentina drew today, it’s Fiorentina who have the advantage because the return match will be taking place on their home ground. Does anyone remember the last time Lyon came away with a win in Italy? But on the flip side, we’ll at least have Fabio Grosso back, and our defense should be sorted out by then.

However, in tonight’s other Group F match, Bayern won at Steaua, though they did so by only one goal. That puts Bayern in the driving seat when Lyon go to Munich in two weeks. Lyon will still be missing Grosso, and who knows what will happen in central defense, whereas Bayern will be at full strength (assuming Franck Ribery meets his target return date). Anything can happen in the next couple of games, so this group will most likely go down to the wire. I don’t think anything will be decided until the last day, and it’s likely that it may even come down to goal differential. So the two completely unnecessary goals Lyon conceded tonight may come back to haunt them.

8. Statistics might not mean much, but boy do they sometimes make you feel good.

Lyon had almost three times as many shots, nearly twice as many shots on goals, forced Frey into twice as many saves, had over two thirds of possession, over four times as many corners, half as many offsides, half as many fouls, and only one yellow card to Fiorentina’s four. Of course, the overwhelming math still resulted in a draw, but the fact that Lyon were able to control and dominate a good team like Fiorentina does a lot for player confidence.

9. Juninho still has it. And when is Toulalan going to score?

Against Nice, it was two terrific free kicks. Today, his long distance shooting was off, but he compensated with the kind of guile that is born out of hard earned experience. When everyone was expecting Juninho to shoot that free kick like he does 99.99% of the time, instead he slotted a clever little pass to Benzema, who used the confusion of the Fiorentina players to his advantage to rescue a point for Lyon.

Jeremy Toulalan was equally decisive tonight, though in a completely different way. He obstructed Fiorentina’s midfield from working and forced them to rely on the wings, and he showed that he could do more than just defend – he was at the heart of a lot of offensive action and had some terrific shots on goal, some of which forced Sebastien Frey into tough saves. He really deserves to score a goal – he’s been wanting it for some time now, but he just has to learn how to control his shots. He has a lot of power on them and has pretty good control, but he doesn’t know where to place the ball strategically. Someone needs to tell him to aim for someplace other than directly at the goalkeeper.

Juninho has more than one trick up his sleeve.

10. Lyon are not cheaters.

In light of the shady game against Nice and now the one against Fiorentina, I feel compelled to defend my team against those who are calling Lyon cheaters, match fixers, and getting special treatment by the league.

Nice: The first two Juninho goals were legit. Watch the Canal+ highlights. The third Lyon goal, a penalty in stoppage time that gave Lyon the win, was in hindsight not deserved. But it was an honest mistake by the linesman, who thought that it was a deliberate hand ball by Vincent Hognon. Notions that the referee was favoring Lyon are ridiculous because he failed to award Lyon a penalty when Fred was brought down in the box during the first half of the game. I don’t see Maurice Cohen complaining about that in his rant Saturday night.

Of course I feel bad for Nice, but it’s hardly the first time that this sort of thing happened, and it’ll continue to happen as long as replay technology isn’t used. How many times have Lyon been forced to give up totally unfair penalties? Definitely a lot more than they are awarded, that’s for sure. Had Nice won an undeserved penalty, no one besides Aulas would care. And that is because there is a double standard amongst the fans and the media. It’s okay when smaller teams benefit from refereeing errors because they are the underdogs and could use all the help they can get. But when it’s a big team, it’s not just unfair but naturally, the league has to be behind it as well.

The reason that Lyon seem to be favored by referees is because they aren’t naive. They know how to win smart fouls, how to avoid getting carded by tackling players just so, know when to argue with the referee and when to shut up, and they are good at utilizing whatever advantage they get, unfair or not. Lyon will never, ever look a gift horse in the mouth. Now, if Lyon missed all their “free” chances, no one would care. But I bet if I looked at all the decisions that went Nice’s way in the past year or so, I’d find quite a few instances of refereeing generosity as well.

Bitch, get out of my face!

Fiorentina: Chris put up a post complaining about the way Lyon scored their first goal. You can also read how Fiorentina fans are taking it. I’m gonna say my piece here.

So what has some people’s knickers in a twist is that a Fiorentina player went gone down, but play continued, which ultimately led to a Lyon goal. Because Luciano Zauri had fallen right next to the net, that meant that Karim Benzema was onside (otherwise he would have been off), so his pass to Frederic Piquionne was valid. Some are claiming that Lyon should have followed the unwritten rule of kicking a ball out of play when a player is down. But because they didn’t, that means they are lying, cheating bastards who have no concept of fair play and who deserve bad karma. Which is hilarious because it was Fiorentina’s bad karma that led to that goal in the first place.

Let’s take a more in depth look at the situation, shall we? If you watch the highlights, players from both teams aren’t even aware that Zauri is down until Benzema is practically on top of him. Zauri at the point starts getting up. The referee saw this but failed to whistle. Now, when you find yourself in a really good scoring position, with your team two goals down and with only 15 minutes left, with the referee continuing play, of course you’re going to keep going. You’d be retarded if you didn’t.

There is a reason the referee didn’t whistle, and that’s because most of the time, a player falls down with fake injuries. It just so happened that Zauri was genuinely hurt (though it wasn’t anything threatening). Fiorentina had already spent the latter portion of the second half committing unnecessary fouls and basically doing whatever they could to halt Lyon’s attacks. They did as much time wasting as they could, so it’s no wonder that no one, neither the referee nor the Lyon players (and even most of the Fiorentina players), took Zauri seriously. In that moment, Zauri’s fall in a rather strategic location seemed too convenient. Lyon naturally took their chance. If anything, it’s Fiorentina’s naivety that’s to blame for not keeping their concentration while the game was still in play. Their inability to hang on to a lead and their discouragement after an unfair call is what prevented them from walking away with three points.

I’m not going to go into the French vs. Italian rivalry that many people are immaturely delving into. It has nothing to do with national identity and everything to do with a murky issue that needs to be clarified. It’s a problem that stretches not only across all leagues and all teams, but in every game. The rule is that you are supposed to keep playing until the referee tells you to stop. But many times, the players will stop the play themselves when someone is down. However, this trust gets abused so easily that it’s no wonder it leads to situations like these. Referees and players need specific guidelines. It’s easy to say that downed players deserve the benefit of the doubt, but they are lying 90% of the time, and it’s so frustrating when a team has to stop good momentum for a fake injury.

And that’s all I’m going to say about that.

The Goals: Lyon (Piquionne 73, Benzema 86), Fiorentina (Gilardino 12, 42)

Match Pictures:




























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  • ursus arctos |  September 19th, 2008 at 12:00 am

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    But Inara, no one reads Goal.com. It is a complete non-entity in the world of football journalism, which is a large part of the reason why it consistently distorts and sensationalises everything. And the British tabloids extend that approach to everything.

    I honestly don’t see the value in extending the “debate”. You’ve argued your side very well, and a number of people (including UEFA, it appears) agree with you. Expecting everyone to agree with you on something that is at once so inherently controversial and based on individual judgement is a way to make yourself crazy; it just ain’t going to happen.

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  • Will |  September 19th, 2008 at 4:14 am

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    hey MAD, not bigotry. just jingoism. and paranoia.

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  • Will |  September 19th, 2008 at 4:17 am

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    and to my fellow canadians – we’re treated to lyon-le havre this week, on tv5. check local listings. in toronto it’s cable channel 103 or 104, i never remember. but if you don’t get channels that high (like me with my rabbit-ear antenna), you can find a co-operative bartender to change the channel.

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  • Matthew |  September 19th, 2008 at 5:26 am

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    lol, inara hates goal.com the way most of the people hate the sun. I don’t think she’s ever forgiven them for those benzema wants to leave lyon asap articles last winter. which were completely untrue, but they had the rest of the world believing it.

    @ursus- i think most people here have stopped talking about that first goal, except MAD who can’t let it go. but the rest of the game and the media fallout needs to be discussed. i understand inara’s frustration because lyon’s integrity already took a huge hit when they played nice, and the fiorentina game make it worse.

    @inara- puel said that grosso’s injury wasn’t as bad as they first feared. he might be ready to play in 15 days. is that enough time for the bayern game?

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  • Matthew |  September 19th, 2008 at 5:32 am

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    http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=573672&sec=europe&cc=5901

    cris says not to worry about his knee.

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  • guignol |  September 19th, 2008 at 5:35 am

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    alessio: re JAB, he can be enormous, you gotta take the good with the bad. you’re saying that if nathalie portman couldn’t cook you’d throw her outta bed?

    bayern? based on what i saw last year (only UEFA cup matches), even losing ufjalesi (sp?) viola is a better team now. take away ribery and they’re hapless. yes, i’m looking at you toni, lucio, dimichaelis… schweinsteiger’s a good’un (every other match).

    mensah? it’s a tossup. flics that pull over a black in a big car for no reason and cuff him? big football star who thinks the world owes him a big favor? both have been seen before. just thank god we have JMA. one way or another “ça va chier des bulles carrées”.

    what i REALLY wanted to say was about the kits. the yellow looks better than expected. and i’m a purple fan who has fiorentina, anderlecht, téfécé shirts to wear on sundays; even junior has found the magic to the point of being a VIKINGS fan, which would be a family drama if i still cared about the NFL (go niners, or don’t, who cares anymore…)

    but the numbers on the back? ours look like they were bought at a battleship galactica convention. and if you’ve ever bought a jersey with gold or silver “flocage” you know it starts coming off after a couple of weeks, but puma has saved you the wait. looks like crap from the beginning!

    Posted from France France

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  • ursus arctos |  September 19th, 2008 at 5:39 am

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    Matthew, I had already let it go the next morning (as had the Viola). The point I was trying to make is that the more responsible football media aren’t trying to make this into a Domenech-style vendetta. They’ve moved on.

    Of course, the fact that l’Equipe ran a feature questioning whether OL systematically benefitted from favourable refereeing decisions after the OCGN match has nothing to do with Fiorentina, and everything to do with them wanting to sell papers. Having read the piece, I don’t think it was so much “questioning OL’s integrity” as wondering aloud whether the country’s “biggest” club was getting the kind of calls that they tend to get in other counties (you know, like Italy).

    It wasn’t that long ago that they were raising similar questions about St. Etienne, OM and PSG (ok, St. Etienne was longer ago than I like to admit, as I remember L’Epopee des Verts well).

    Posted from Italy Italy

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  • guignol |  September 19th, 2008 at 6:55 am

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    here’s a musing that cohen’s colic got started in me little head when he said refereeing is worse in france than anywhere else.

    he obviously forgot the scandals in italy and germany. but the worst is that he specifically praised english officials (true that in light of OGCN’s style, three yellow per match “c’est pas un luxe”)… obviously unaware of the folk tales about how hard it’s always been for officials to call a péno at old trafford.

    so let’s admit that the officials subconsciously favored OL in these matches. it’s not necessarily because they’ve been bought off by old man aulas. there are other forces working on their psyches:

    first, there’s the weight of being 7 times champion. this is human nature, it’s why we wear ties to job interviews and ask for letters of introduction from the most distinguished of our acquanitances. MORE than human nature: it’s why our dog listens to me and not to my daughter.

    second, the home field advantage. there’s a reason the most vocal fans sit behind the goals. and even if the most controversial decisions took place at the south end, cailleux got an earful in the first half over some called the BG considered missed.

    finally, a ref is at heart a football fan. a knowledgeable one. and it’s only natural that in his heart of hearts he admires “le beau jeu” and hates “blaireaux”. a player with 139 yellows in his career will get to 150 long before a player with 10 will get to 11. when a keeper takes 1-2 seconds too much he won’t get a card but after 10 times he’s earned a lot of brownie points.

    personally i remember the fiorentina-rangers match last year. i didn’t care who won when i switched on the set but after a half hour of watching the two teams i was hoping for la viola to win (or rather for RFC to lose) as hard as i’ve ever rooted for OL. just for the sake of the game.

    Posted from France France

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  • ursus arctos |  September 19th, 2008 at 8:00 am

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    T’es sage, guignol.

    Posted from Italy Italy

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  • sandrahn |  September 19th, 2008 at 8:17 am

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    Every footballing nation has top teams who are accused of benefitting from referee bias. I often accuse the English FA and English referees of being lapdogs of Alex Ferguson and Man United. The fact that there has been only ONE penalty awarded against MUtd at Old Trafford between 1992 and 2008 (a record no other home ground in any English division can match) is just one example cited by rival fans like me.

    I can understand rival Ligue 1 fans attacking Lyon for being “cheats” or beneficiaries of referee bias (not that I agree with it, just understand it). Or other fans from other countries making the same argument after watching this one game — IF they focus their outrage on Lyon only and not use it to generalize toward a larger bigoted attack on the “French national character.” We are constantly told by our Italian friends that their calciopoli scandal is nothing unique in the football world and that other countries have cheating scandals too — they scold us when we use calciopoli to attack the “Italian national character” and Italian football generally. Naturally they forget all that when they talk about French football–committing the same exact sins they condemn when Italian football is under the microscope.

    MAD, you have an anti-French fixation, which means you’re a bigot against the French, end of. To disprove that, you have to comment objectively and intelligently about France without using one small incident to generalize about an entire country. You also have to refrain from bringing in totally irrelevant myths and stereotypes about World War II (what the hell does military history have to do with football, ffs?). I could go on about Mussolini and claim that he and his followers were representative of the Italian character, but that would be bigotry on my part. Your comment on another blog “fortunately he’s a France supporter so he’ll soon give up the argument” is an ugly, bigoted slur. I could say “fortunately he’s Italian so his cheating ways will soon come to light” — that would be an ugly, bigoted slur. As long as you insist on ugly double standards, then you will continue to be a bigot.

    Posted from United States United States

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  • sidney govou |  September 19th, 2008 at 8:28 am

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    You italians are just angry because you can’t agree that Lyon is better team than Fiorentina. We see that. Lyon are stronger in techinc, our players are better than you will ever have. Benzema vs. Mutu or Gillardino, who didn’t score a goal in ECL for two or three years, until now. Benz scored last year four goals, one of that goals was gived to Manchester. Ederson was soo soo good. He is such a elegant player. He rise above all italian middlefielders. Defence, well we have some problems, but Cris and Mensah have injury problems, and Boumsong didn’t play almost nothing in the begin of the season, just like Fred ( who is striker ). I love when Fred plays, but he must starts to score. He can’t in every match just creating space for Benz. He must be in game. I’m sure that he will score in game against LeHavre, if he will play. Don’t worry about game in Munchen. Lyon are the best when they must play against big teams. But we must improve our game against ” little ” teams.

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  • ursus arctos |  September 19th, 2008 at 8:57 am

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    If you are so much better than the Viola, why didn’t you win the match at home easily?

    T’es pas sage, govou.

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  • Inara |  September 19th, 2008 at 9:17 am

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    Ronan, that is pretty hilarious coming from you. A couple of posts ago, you said that Lyon would never win anything and pretty much implied that they suck as a team.

    And I’ve asked repeatedly, please do not generalize Italians (or anyone else) for that matter. A few troublesome fans on both sides are hardly representative of the rest of us.

    And Ursus is right. For all of Lyon’s domination and better play, Fiorentina were the ones who were two goals up and walked away with a point on hostile territory. Success has more to do with taking the few chances you have as opposed to failing to put away the dozens of chances you create.

    And please please please stop with this France vs. Italy things, or I will stop all comments to this post.

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  • Inara |  September 19th, 2008 at 9:18 am

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    Unrelated, but Milan’s sporting director, Ariedo Braida, was at the game to watch Benzema.

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  • MAD |  September 19th, 2008 at 9:32 am

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    –Okay, sandrahn, before we go any further, this is the definition of a bigot:

    “A person who regards his own faith and views in matters of religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable or wicked. In an extended sense, a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.”

    –Here’s where I got it from: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bigot

    Here’s what you said is bigotry:
    “fortunately he’s a France supporter so he’ll soon give up the argument”

    –The above isn’t bigotry. It’s a snide comment on 1 post and accurate military history going back almost 200 years combined for a stinging retort. What it responds to is bigotry. Take a look:

    “But the whining about the goal is just further evidence to how much Italians and their soccer fans bitch and moan…
    So basically all the Italian fans who whine…
    PS the French were taken over by a very dangerous Hitler while the Italians were dirty fucking fascists the whole time…”

    –Notice, “Italians are whiners”, “all Italians are whiners”, “Italians were dirty fucking fascists”
    –Now that is intolerance and prejudice writ large. And I am going to make fun of it every time. Just like I make fun of defending Lyon for their poor sportsmanship. Which is what I have been doing from the get go.
    –By the way, the thing that he’s complaining about? It’s a quote from the Simpsons.
    –I noticed that you don’t mind this guys’ intolerance. I mean I saw that you posted on the blog and called me a bigot, for not actually being one, but you didn’t say boo about this guy,,, hmm. And I am going to bet that you didn’t complain to Matt Groening either.
    –And I don’t have to refrain from anything. I will do as I please, and I choose not to be a bigot and a racist because that the way that I am.
    –If you want to talk about Mussolini, I could care less. Me and my family aren’t/weren’t Fascists so talk away. Mussolini happened, and talking about history is fun. And its not bigotry to bring him up.

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  • sandrahn |  September 19th, 2008 at 9:59 am

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    “I noticed that you don’t mind this guys’ intolerance. I mean I saw that you posted on the blog and called me a bigot, for not actually being one, but you didn’t say boo about this guy”

    Oh please–I’m sure you very generously express your condemnation when anyone makes francophobic comments (while always being quick to condemn anti-Italian slurs). I’m not going any further with this, to me you remain a francophobic bigot who wields double standards when it comes to your sensitivity about anti-Italian bigotry.

    “And I am going to bet that you didn’t complain to Matt Groening either.”

    Interesting that you mentioned that because in the past I HAVE written letters of complaint to TV shows that have made slurs against certain nationalities (including the French). I don’t watch the Simpsons but I wouldn’t have liked that comment at all had I seen the episode in question.

    It’s not bigotry to bring up Mussolini — it’s bigotry to generalize Mussolini as an innate expression of the Italian culture and character–to bring him up in an attempt to make ugly stereotypes about Italians. Sorry you can’t understand such a basic distinction.

    And ursus is right to question the notion that Lyon are so much better than Fiorentina — it’s not true. Fiorentina are my #1 Italian team to watch, way ahead of Inter or Roma or Juve or Milan. For them to get 2 goals away from home in the CL is no mean feat. Let’s see if Lyon can do the same in the reverse leg.

    Posted from United States United States

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  • sidney govou |  September 19th, 2008 at 10:10 am

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    We did’t win because you play football like crap. You score a goal and then you play with 11 players in box of 16 metars. Fight like a man, don’t be like a pussy, score a goal and then full retreat. Lyon kill Fiorentina, but we didn’t score a goal more then italians.

    Posted from United States

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  • ursus arctos |  September 19th, 2008 at 10:12 am

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    What brilliant analysis. Do keep it up.

    Quite amazing that the Viola scored the second while in full retreat.

    Posted from Italy Italy

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  • sidney govou |  September 19th, 2008 at 11:02 am

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    You smile to me? Yo maccaroni, you are just a little italian, you little frog. We Croatinas hate Italy, so I hate you. And don’t never say that Lyon is weak, I kill for that. So, frog man, back off.

    Posted from United States

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  • Inara |  September 19th, 2008 at 11:21 am

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    Ronan, keep that up and I WILL ban your IP.

    Posted from United States

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  • Jo |  September 19th, 2008 at 11:21 am

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    Dear Santa,

    I’ve been very kind, all year. Really, believe me.
    For Christmas, I’d just like you to ban Sid Govou and Mad’s from this debate.
    Just forget about my last “beautiful car with 3 naked models in it” request.

    Kind regards

    Jo

    Posted from France France

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  • Jo |  September 19th, 2008 at 11:22 am

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    Wow !
    You’re so good, Santa ! You read my mind !

    Posted from France France

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  • Ronan "The Don" Napier |  September 19th, 2008 at 11:28 am

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    Inara what have i done wrong ?

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  • Jo |  September 19th, 2008 at 11:30 am

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    Ronan ?
    Have you ever heard about the IP ?
    Just asking.

    Posted from France France

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  • Inara |  September 19th, 2008 at 11:44 am

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    K, I’m closing comments on this post. There’s obviously nothing relevant left to discuss about the game.

    Posted from United States

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Comments are closed


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