Stuttgart vs. Lyon Lineups
By: Inara | October 23rd, 2007Less than an hour before the game begins. Lyon and Stuttgart have their destinies in their own hands.
Lyon:
Vercoutre
Reveillere - Squillaci - Anderson - Grosso
Juninho - Fabio Santos - Kallstrom
Govou - Benzema - Ben Arfa
Stuttgart:
Schafer
Hilbert - Tasci - Meira - Osorio
Meissner - Pardo
Basturk
Farnerud - Cacau
Gomez
Feel free to post commentary, frustrations, and thoughts here during and after the game.
Viewing options:
Sopcast: sop://broker1.sopcast.com:3912/31298 (French). You can also try this site, but only if you have sopcast installed.
UEFA (ESPN Soccernet) is also selling the stream on their website, for around $8.
Category: Champions League
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Comments
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Okay so this is what the table looks like now:
Barca 7
Rangers 7
Lyon 3
Stuttgart 0Assuming Lyon win at Stuttgart and Barca win at Camp Nou, that would make the table:
Barca 10
Rangers 7
Lyon 6
Stuttgart 0For matchday 5, Lyon would need to defeat Barca at home (if Rangers can draw Barca at home, why can’t we win???), and Stuttgart would have to get their act together for a draw as well. That would bring Rangers and Lyon within one point of each other. Rangers have a superior goal difference, unless they for some reason conceded six goals in the next two matches.
Barca 10
Rangers 8
Lyon 9
Stuttgart 1So basically the deciding match will be at Ibrox, where Lyon will have to eke out a win. A draw will only get us through if Rangers lose at Stuttgart. We can’t lose against Barcelona at home. Scary.
Posted from
United States
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Not scary. I think it’s reasonnable to think that Lyon will have to win at Ibrox.
The way I see it, Lyon will manage 3 points against Suttgart and 1 against Barca.
Rangers will beat Stuttgart and lose to Barca in Camp Nou.
Which would give them 11 points each.
After that, all that matters is the Ibrox match, since it’s the particular goal difference which is important, and there’s pretty much no chance Lyon wins by more than 3 at Ibrox.
So yes, Lyon will need to beat Suttgart, draw Barca and beat Glasgow.
Hardly impossible. Especially with Coupet back.Posted from
United States -
Never mind, I miscounted.
Obviously, Stutgart needs at least a draw against the Rangers for Lyon to stand a chance.Posted from
United States -
Honestly, we shouldn’t lose confidence. Lets not forget that lyon beat real madrid 3 times over the last three years, 3-0 at one point. They’re finding their feet and rhythm, and let’s not forget we still have Cris back, nor Coupet. I want to see Barca try to break through Toulalan and Santos only to face cris and squillaci at the back, and then if they get that far, they have Coupet!
come on let’s hope our injured soldiers make it back.Posted from
France -
Isn’t Cris supposed to come back in 4-5 months?
Posted from
United States -
Really? i thought he’s due back by end of november…or am i just dreaming?
Posted from
France -
Coupet should be back by the Rangers match. Cris may not be back until February.
Posted from
United States -
OMFG we won!! how on earth did Rangers draw with Barca
Posted from
United States -
Rangers drew with Barca the same way Scotland beat France: They hunkered down on defense. (But didn’t get that one amazing strike that Scotland got.) And they really didn’t play that badly. Barca dominated until they got close to the box, and then it would fall apart.
Posted from
United States -
That’s one of the reasons that no one takes Scottish football that seriously, and the main reason why instead of saying Rangers did well, many say that Lyon and Barca failed. So their good results are considered flukes.
It’s not to say that Rangers (and the Scotland NT) didn’t deserve their wins, because they had effective tactics, but those same tactics are so negative that they aren’t examples of good football.
I think it’s a shame because these teams are capable of so much more, but they are afraid to trust innovative and attacking tactics in Europe and so stick with doing the safe thing: sit back with ten men behind the ball and try to grab goals on the counter.
I’m not being a sore loser here, as Rangers did deserve their win at the Gerland, but common perception is that Lyon messed up, which takes away the credit that Scottish football have been so desperately seeking in the past few years.
Posted from
United States -
I have to reluctantly agree with some of your points about Scottish football, especially Rangers. Unlike a lot of Scottish teams, which are really light on striking options right now, Rangers have some great offensive options. Nacho Novo has real finishing talent, as do DeMarcus Beasley, Kris Boyd and Daniel Cousin. I’m personally not a Darcheville fan, but he has his moments too. They don’t have the confidence to attack a team like Barcelona, but I think that confidence is starting to build. Confidence in Europe comes from results in Europe, and when you’re a league on the upswing, as Scotland is, sometimes your best way to get results is to play defensively. I have to say I was disappointed to not see one of Rangers’ five midfielders play a bit farther up … Cousin was alone way too often in the Barca defense. I hope as time goes on that Scottish teams are a bit more daring, but I do love to see the good results.
Posted from
United States -
I will put it this way. Rangers can view a draw at home as a good result, while Barca can view a draw at Ibrox as a bad result. If your team can accept drawing at home then you simply are not a good team. You should win all of your games at home, atleast expect to win them. Rangers is seeing Lyon and Barca when they are far from their best, early season slump if you will, if either team returns to their previous form i dont see them having a problem beating Rangers.
Posted from
United States -
Inara, fyi, I signed up for the UEFA on demand viewing, and today’s games were in the archives when I checked about two hours after the game. So you can add that to you “I hate Setanta” post.
My husband’s leaving town for four days, so I think I’ll curl up one evening with a glass of wine and a laptop and watch teams like Arsenal, Lyon, Marseille, Sevilla and Roma.
Posted from
United States -
Great comments from the Lyon fans then an example of bitterness from Corey. You should win all your games at home? What about you? We are a Scottish team who have little money compared to you and certainly Barca. We beat you at your ground - call it lucky all you like - can 3-0 ever be lucky?
We then held Barca at home which you’ll be lucky to do unless you improve greatly on your showing against them in Barcelona when you were, sorry, totally mauled.
You keep mentioning your previous great form - well, time to show it and stop bleating about Rangers.
Odds are you’ll beat Stuttgart and we’ll lose to Barca…the next games for each of us could go either way but I’d rather play Stuttgart away than Barca at home. Your best chance is that they will already have qualified and Barca will drop their standard.
Either way…it all depends on the game at Ibrox…have you seen our record there? Bring it on Lyon..I actually liked you as a team and fans till I read all this arrogance…we’ll see how you fare in Scotland as you didn’t do so well with your ‘glory’ team when Celtic beat you not so long ago…you’ve dissed the Scots…beware!P.S Sorry, but you really ain’t that good…at least we know we aren’t…talk about the arrogance of the English? You’re as bad…try being respectful to opponents who’ve beaten you in future…rather than comments like ‘if Rangers can draw with them we can surely win’…what gives you the right after we beat you 3-0 at your ground to say that?
Just like the English…
Posted from
United States -
LucyBlue: I think you’re taking our post match comments a bit too seriously, but I’ll respond in the same vein.
“try being respectful to opponents who’ve beaten you in future…rather than comments like ‘if Rangers can draw with them we can surely win’…what gives you the right after we beat you 3-0 at your ground to say that?”
I imagine we do come across as arrogant, but this is a Lyon blog, and naturally we Lyon fans have every right to believe we can get a result on our home ground and even at Ibrox. The Barca-Lyon game aside (I wonder how Rangers would do if they were missing their best goalkeeper, best defender, and best striker at Camp Nou), Lyon have an excellent CL away record. Given that the team’s form has improved by a lot since September, we are allowed our optimism.
You’re right that Rangers don’t have the resources that Lyon have, which just goes to show how dismal and underachieving Lyon performed that night. But the fact of the matter is, Lyon are a better team than Rangers, just as Barcelona are a better team than Lyon. The difference was that while Rangers came to play football at the Gerland three weeks ago, Lyon were careless and had no fight in them, a very disappointing and very unusual performance. That loss was not the standard in which one should judge Lyon, just as no one would judge Rangers by their loss to St. Johnstone at home last year.
PS: I welcome you to read the past several posts and comments and find where any of us might have said that Rangers did not deserve their victory at the Gerland.
Posted from
United States -
I think this brings up an interesting point about how you judge which of two teams is a “better” team. When they’re not in the same domestic league, it seems like how far they progress in Europe and head-to-head results are the best measures. I don’t think Rangers are a better team than Lyon because they beat them in one game - that’s a pretty huge stretch. But how do you go about saying who is a better team? I guess, to me, who’s better this year comes down to who goes farther and the head-to-head record when it’s all over.
Posted from
United States -
I guess I should have clarified what I mean in terms of a better team. For me, it’s past results, pedigree, players on the roster.
Rangers are probably in better form at this moment. But current form isn’t always a good judge because take a look at Milan, who lost to Celtic, scraped a win against Benfica at home, and are currently midtable in Serie A, yet that says nothing about the quality of their team.
Even head to head records make me wary. Scotland beat France twice, but that doesn’t mean that they are level on quality. Brazil loses to Mexico nine times out of ten, yet Mexico isn’t a better team than Brazil. Sometimes it’s a style of play that is difficult for a team to overcome. In Lyon’s case, they struggle against defensive sides and haven’t yet found the solution in getting past it. Same with Barca, who also had trouble breaking down Scottish defense.
Posted from
United States -
I think I understood what you meant, and I agree with most of your point. Though I agree that single results are pretty meaningless, at what point do single results add up to changing how “good” a team is? At what point do you have to say Milan is not just having a bad run of form, but are actually a “worse” team than they were at a certain point in the past? At some point, results do matter in terms of ranking teams. Otherwise, it’s more of a popularity contest. There’s no great way to compare world teams, and I don’t claim to have one, but it’s interesting to think about.
Posted from
United States -
It is something to think about. Last year, for example, Bayern did quite poorly and missed out on CL qualification in a league that isn’t as strong as the Big 3. Yet no one ever doubted that they were a good side but chalked their results to a temporary blip. Why was that? Because they have money? Their history? Ajax is a historically strong club but no one calls them heavyweights anymore. And when was the last time Bayern did well in Europe? 2001? So why was their bad form - which stretched for a year - excused, but when Lyon has a bad month, it suddenly means they suck as a team?
The reason I brought up Milan is because they almost always manage to get results, and for them, poor form is always temporary. At one point last season they were floundering domestically, but they managed to get over that, make up the points they lost because of the Calciopoli deduction, and also win the Champions League on the side.
If Rangers can keep their momentum going, can make it through the knockout rounds not just this year but year after year, then I think a very strong case can be made for them to be considered a strong European team.
As a Lyon fan, I don’t hold any illusions about the greatness of my team because on the European stage, we haven’t won anything despite having a dogged consistency. For the past several years, we always won our groups despite having clubs like Manchester United, Real Madrid, and Bayern Munich in them, but midway through the competition either bad luck or crap playing happens. So we have a lot to prove, and I’m sure this year’s performances only negate whatever progress we made on the European scene.
Posted from
United States -
Inara,
Read my first line where I mentioned the ‘great comments’ from Lyon fans.
It was the ‘arrogant’ ones I was addressing.
I suppose there’s nothing inherently wrong in being arrogant but it does tend to bite you back when things do not go as planned.
As for judging teams and deciding who is better: well, if they do not play in the same league and only meet each other twice in competition with one ultimately winning then surely that team is ‘better’?
How else can you judge, do we award points now for possession?
Perhaps as a member of the G14 clubs Lyon will push for this or maybe even technical merit marks?
Till then it’s just the old-fashioned way of who puts the ball in the other’s net the most to seperate winners and losers, good teams from not so good….
Simple really but as you say, this is a Lyon blog so I’ll leave you in peace.
Posted from
United States -
Great win for us tonight! Maybe it wasn’t the best performance but Lyon needed those 3 points more than a stylish victory.
Posted from
United States -
Lucy, how is Lyon expecting to win at home to Barcelona anymore arrogant than Rangers expecting to win at Ibrox against Lyon?
Posted from
United States -
Well, in the end, evaluating which team is better is a moot point since people have different standards. But there is a reason that Barcelona is a top seed and Rangers is a fourth seed, right? As I pointed out to Ian, Scotland defeated France twice - but do you really consider Scotland to be superior to the France NT? I’m not trying to offend, but even if Scotland and France met twice this year, there are other factors to judge their qualities in relation besides those two meetings. Barcelona drew with Rangers at Ibrox - if we take that result at face value, then Rangers are just as good as Barca. Lyon have never played Liverpool, but I still know that Liverpool have the better team.
In any case, as I said, we Lyon fans may sound arrogant, but it’s really just confidence. Arrogant would be saying that Lyon will thrash Rangers 3-0 at Ibrox. Confidence is just saying that Lyon can get a good result there if they play well.
Posted from
United States -
Not again. After the Lyon-Rangers game, there was so many Rangers fans who came here and tried to convince us that Scottish football was better than French football.
Posted from
United States -
Matthew,
Just to answer your question.
1) Rangers do not EXPECT to beat Lyon at Ibrox. Far from it…I think we’d be happy with a draw to be honest.
2) That wasn’t the comment I called arrogant, it was the one that said ‘if Rangers can draw with Barca we can surely beat them. Now, that IS arrogance at it suggests Rangers achiving a draw means Lyon should surely win ergo Lyon are better than the team that beat them 3-0 at home. It could be considered ‘confidence’ were it not for this small fact.
Inara, well….if you know who’s best without them playing then you must be some football analyst indeed. Here’s a thought…by your logic, better teams can be beaten by inferior teams 100% of the time they play them…so er how are they better? Is it simply a case of ‘they just are’…I just tend to think the BEST team tends to be the winners unless a clearly wrong decision has been made within the game by the referee.
Scottish teams do not play the same as French….possession means little to us…scoring goals however does. You seem to favour possession and believe it somehow translates automatically to goals…stats say that just ain’t the case a lot of the time. Perhaps it’s just a different psyche we have but maybe Scottish teams would gain more possession if it gave you points and wins…it doesn’t so they concentrate on goals instead.
P.S I don’t believe the Scottish league is as strong as the French but do think there’s not really such a great gap anymore.
As for Lyon, I’m sure they’ll still be favourites at Ibrox and I see you are getting some players back - shame that goalie isn’t gonna play again.
Should you win and qualify then I wish you well - we had no expectations in this group and bar a disaster we should make the UEFA cup which is better than most anticipated. Should we qualify then that will be a cause of great celebration.
That’s humility for you but you probably see it as us only recognising our place…guess we’re different in more ways than one.Posted from
United States
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