Anyway, it is interesting to hear your different opinions.

I am very optimistic for the future Inara, make no mistake about that.

What follows isn’t just a response to Shazback but more of a general comment:

Regardless of how our former players are doing at other clubs, it doesn’t negate the fact that they did well for Lyon. And that’s how it should be. We don’t recruit players based on how they’ll do ten years later at Real Madrid. We get them so they do well for us. It’s not our problem if other clubs like what they see and start fighting over our players. But while they were here, Essien, Diarra, Malouda, Abidal, Tiago, and Edmilson did well for us. So their contribution to Lyon has never been in any doubt. What they did afterwards doesn’t concern me.

In the same vein, bringing in a superstar might not solve Lyon’s problems. If a player – no matter how talented – can’t adjust into the team already set up – then he’s doomed to fail. For example, Trezeguet at Lyon would have been a disaster since we can’t accommodate a pure poacher in our current set up. So we have to look at our recruitment logically. And frankly, the kind of stars we’d like to see at the club won’t come to France. Forget the cream of the crop – we couldn’t convince second tier stars like Heinze, Reyes, and Morientes, whether it was because of taxes or the attractiveness of the league. But those problems are out of Lyon’s hands – we can’t do anything about that. And because this is France, we can’t pay for salaries with income we don’t have, so we can’t pull an Inter or an MU and run into the red. We have a big transfer fund, but a smart club doesn’t pay salaries from that or else it will be drained pretty quick. And as things stand, most of our cash is tied up into OL Land. Once it’s built, we’ll have a lot more income, especially since we are financing it with modest debt. So for Lyon, it’s all about the long term.

I know a lot of people decry the signings of Anderson and Boumsong. But you guys have to realize that these two aren’t part of Lyon’s long term plans. It’s unreasonable to expect that Lyon will improve with each and every transfer. That’s just not possible. Improving requires a lot of planning, but those two players were signed as last minute solutions due to injuries. It’s not like Lyon spent the last two years following them like they did with Toulalan and Ederson.

Now you can get mad at Lyon if this summer, they don’t sign a more permanent, long term defender with a better future, but please remember that Boumsong and Anderson are not the club’s first choices. Some of you might ask why Lyon didn’t recruit better players this winter than them. It’s also because of future planning. It’s likely that Lyon do have a defender they want to sign, someone that won’t be available until later. So it makes more sense to spend only 3m on Boumsong now then 10m on a slightly better player, only to spend 15m in the summer for their top choice. And both Boumsong and Anderson know that they are just backups. If they want to leave in the summer, Lyon won’t care.

Lyon probably won’t win the CL. I think the management knew that going into the season. Given the relaxed way they are accepting Lyon’s rather shoddy record this year, it’s obvious the club is more concerned with building a squad, making players fit together, changing how they play the game. Sure, Lyon will lose one or two big players this summer (Kallstrom and Grosso perhaps), but the core of the team will probably stay, enhanced with a few more signings. On paper, Lyon are already the strongest they’ve ever been, but next year they’ll put it into practice.

So let’s all try to be a little more optimistic, okay?

You are right, Lyon has never beaten a big gun in a crucial match. But clubs like Chelsea haven’t really done so either. And may I remind you that Arsenal hadn’t gone past the 1/4 finals of the champions league before the year they reached the final.

As for Diarra, Essien and Edmilson, I gave their names because they were starters in their “big team” as you said. Diarra of course didn’t settle in as well as everyone thought, but noone will deny he is one of the best out there. As for Edmilson, he was a regular in the Barca midfield for a few years, and it is only in the past years he has been changed. But using the argument he is not playing now to say he is not good is not valid IMO. Barca just renewed their squad with other players. But Edmilson did the trick for a few years.

Anyway, I hope you understand that I am a Lyon supporter, and that even at the times of Giuly and Maurice or even N’gotty for me Lyon played the best football in Europe.

You say that what Lyon lack is “prestige”… But how do Lyon want to gain any when they sign B-listed players like Anderson and Boumsong, or even interesting, but not star players like Delgado or Keita? Lyon have won 6 L1 on the run. If that’s not enough “trophy”, then how will the 7th change anything? I don’t buy into this. Marseille in the early 1990s was able to sign international stars like Waddle, and they hadn’t done even half of what Lyon has done (prior to winning the CL in 1993)… So what does Lyon need? I honestly can’t see where Lyon lacks in “prestige” compared with Roma, Arsenal, Tottenham or Atletico…

Inter’s money comes from Mr Moratti… Their own Oil Tycoon. Milan might be old, but Pato, Kaka, Gilardinho, Bonera, Gourcuff and Digao are ready to help the overhaul. Roma still have on their books Mexes (arguably better alone than all of Lyon’s back line), Vucinic, Mancini, Pizarro, Taddei, De Rossi… All are at least on par with Lyon’s best XI. Munich have only lost once in the Bundesliga… Against 5 times for Lyon. Their attack is weak for the moment, but it could become just as impressive at the start of the season. I don’t think much of Juventus or Liverpool, so I’ll let them be.

As for “beating” top clubs… Roma knocked Lyon out last season, AC Milan beat Lyon the previous season, PSV the season before that, Porto the season before that, Denizlispor the season before… In fact, which “big” clubs have Lyon beat? Real twice in the group stages (Real went through both times), Bayern once in the group stages (Bayern went through), Inter once in the group stages (Inter went through, Lyon went to UEFA)… And that’s it. Since 2001. 4 wins. None were decisive, sadly.

Lyon are building up. I just want to remind us all of this, because I must admit I chuckle inside when I read “the quality of our squad is as good as the big european clubs“…

Ronan : Unless I’m mistaken, Gudjohnsen has always played as a “deep” attacker, behind an out-and-out striker. When need has been, he’s often dropped to the wings or to a lower midfield position. So I think he’d be able to change to defence. Not very well, but his positioning is good, his movement is alright, and he’s an excellent header of the ball… So he could probably fill in. Not become a great defender, but fill in. Like Bodmer…

pride of lyon : When I look at Abidal, Malouda, Essien, Diarra and Edmilson, I see good defensive-minded players, with a big physical aspect to their playing style. Malouda is now on the bench at Chelsea. Cole has come back from injury, and Grant seems only too happy to have a proper solution to his attacking problems. Abidal hasn’t got all the culés behind him yet, and his lapses in concentration as well as his still far too average crossing aren’t helping him much. His defensive qualities on the other hand remain. Both of these were recognised as part of the best left sides in the world before they were sold… Whilst Abidal has more or less kept true to his reputation, Malouda hasn’t… He’s one of the dissapointments of Chelsea’s squad so far. Essien, I admit I didn’t recon he was as good as he proved to be with Chelsea. But Diarra and Edmilson have not yet managed to become constant first picks in their respective clubs… Diarra has found Gago, Guti, Sneijder and Robben to be just too much (I’m not counting Robinho’s left-wing antics last season, nor Drenthe’s this season). Edmilson hasn’t been helped by his injuries, but Deco-Iniesta-Xavi-Ronaldinho-Eto’o-Motta/Messi has kept him to a secondary role, increased now by Dos Santos, Gudjohnsen, Bojan and Touré… So out of the five you spoke of, how many are “stars” in their side? I’d say two. Abidal and Essien. And Abidal is more of a falling star than a rising one. So nope, they’re not “better” players, nor “worse” players. They’re just pretty much what Lyon’s starting XI is in my eyes : a few true stars and a lot of good but not exceptional players.

Best starting XIs? Without injury?

Casillas vs Coupet
Ramos-Pepe-Cannavaro-Heinze vs Reveillère-Squillaci-Cris-Grosso
Guti-Gago-Sneijder vs Juninho-Toulalan-Källström
Robinho-Van Nistelrooy-Robben vs Govou-Benzema-Ben Arfa

I only see one line where Lyon are on level : Attack. And that’s with Lyon’s preferred formation, not Real’s. You can find them to be equal, I just don’t. And so far, results back that up.

Sure, Lyon doesn’t have anything to blush of. Except their defence. And their lack of depth. It’s because of these two reasons that many people (myself included) still consider Lyon to be a “2nd-rate” european side (2nd-rate in chances of winning the CL that is…), when Lyon have won more trophies this century than ANY OTHER EUROPEAN CLUB. Lyon are the most successful club in Europe at the moment, and the French league is only a few little points behind the Italian league in the UEFA Ranking. So why does the team that breezes through the L1 find it so hard to win against top league european opponents when it’s important? It’s nice to beat Real in the group stages, but I’m sure you’d swap it any day for not having conceded those two goals against AC Milan… And that’s the point. You don’t write club history on group stages. Not in Europe. You write them in the latter stages and in the domestic league.

You are right on one point though, we don’t have as big a depth in the squad as they have. But do we really want the depth in squad? it is usually more problems than benefit. Most of us already think we have too much of a depth in midfield…
If you take the best starting 11 possible of all the big teams in Europe (and forget about the injuries), IMO Lyon’s best starting 11 is as good as any of them.

I see now that Lyon is not a big club yet, because when we sell players they suddenly become great players, but in people’s mind, when we sign players, they are always crap.

I know it may sound unrealistic and arrogant. But compared to other clubs, apart from history, Lyon has nothing to blush of.

So that’s every line except the goalkeeper (not “really” a line, but Casillas and Valdes aren’t too bad) where Barça/Real have more quality and more depth. Lyon’s squad is a lot better than other french clubs, but is still a long shot away from the squads of the biggest teams in the world (hence even without a proper defence Lyon is top of the league whilst barely scraping through in the CL).

Lyon seem to be looking to become more adaptable, and to introduce the 4-4-2 as an alternative to their current playing style. But I don’t think Perrin is the man to do it. He’s not a very good manager in my opinion (certainly not good enough for Lyon), whilst to change tactics, you need someone with a clear idea on where he’s going and how he’s going to get there…

Oh, and if you’re thinking it’s “just” Real and Barça, look at Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester United, Inter Milan, AC Milan, Roma, or even (more arguably) at Bayern Munich, Juventus or Liverpool…