

Build Your Own Team: Part II
By: Inara | March 13th, 2008I don’t know about you guys, but I for one am bored with match previews! Unfortunately, due to a hectic month at work, that’s all I seem to have time for. So I thought we’d do something different today. Instead of the usual news and rumors, we can talk about something more pragmatic - our tactics.

Perrin’s Clipboard: The ball is passed everywhere except into the goal. Note the player trying to play by himself.
As Ush mentioned in the comments of this post, Lyon have a lot of options up front, and given Perrin’s penchant for messing around with the order of the front three, it begs the question: just what are we to expect next year?
We know Karim Benzema is staying next season, and Fred may decide to as well (especially if he continues to start). So how do we accommodate them as well as Hatem Ben Arfa off the bench? What about Kader Keita vs. Sidney Govou? The first has more talent than the second, but the second has been performing far better than the first. And let’s not even talk about midfield.
First question: To 4-3-3 or not to 4-3-3?
Lyon’s 4-3-3 evolves (and devolves) to 4-5-1 as the wingers rise and drop but never lose reference to the “insides” (Kallstrom/Bodmer and Juninho). The 5 switches to 3 from 4-5-1 to 4-3-3 as the team unfolds forward and adds width as it comes up the pitch and then narrows back again once it drops back after losing ball possession. That allows Lyon to defend and then mount quick counter attacks.
This system has been wonderfully effective in the past few years, and it has given Lyon that attacking edge that they’re so well known for. The 4-3-3 was adopted by Paul Le Guen purely to bring out the best in Juninho, who doesn’t have the strength or pace to make as much of an impact in the traditional 4-4-2.
But when Juninho doesn’t play, or worse, when he plays like crap, the 4-3-3 loses a lot of its lethality, and a lone striker isn’t enough sometimes. An added problem is that as Juninho ages (he’s 33 now), his contributions to the team are no longer steady or reliable, and it’s unreasonable to expect him to be the player he used to be. By next season, he may even be relegated to supersub status.
The good news is that we’ll have Ederson next year, and even if Kim Kallstrom leaves, we’ll still have Mathieu Bodmer. So Lyon are rich in attacking midfielders. But none of them are exactly like Juninho, though Ederson comes close and could probably slot into that Juninho role. But do we want him to?
Both Benzema and Fred have admitted that they prefer a two striker system, and this summer seems as good of a time as any to accommodate their wishes. And assuming Jeremy Toulalan snags one of those central midfield roles, who would be dropped, Ederson or Bodmer? Or do we put Ederson on the flank, giving up one of our traditional wingers (Govou/Keita/Ben Arfa)?
The current lineup:
Coupet
Clerc - Squillaci - Cris - Grosso
Juninho - Toulalan - Kallstrom
Govou - Benzema/Fred - Ben Arfa/Benzema
A possible “new” lineup:
Coupet
Clerc - Squillaci - Cris - Grosso
Keita - Toulalan - Ederson - Govou
Benzema - Fred
Decisions, decisions, decisions. No doubt Lyon’s main priority next year will be to keep their strikers happy, namely Benzema (who just formally put pen-to-paper on his shiny new contract). And perhaps goal scoring will come more easily with two strikers. But is that worth lessening the impact of our very talented midfield?
Second question: Style
I’m sure that it hasn’t escaped your notice that Lyon are looking more and more like a Spanish team in terms of flair, fluidity, and attacking style, with the added emphasis of typical French tactical play and solid defending (nb: only applicable with healthy defenders). This has made Lyon one of the more eye-catching teams in Europe (call them a poor man’s Barcelona) and is reminiscent of the Ajax power teams of the mid 90’s.
Though L1 is more physical than La Liga and Serie A (but has nothing on the EPL), Lyon’s recruitment policy indicates that the club is moving away from big impact players and towards faster ones with a higher degree of technical proficiency. It’s one of the reasons why Lyon consistently top their league - they are simply technically superior to every other French team.
But nowadays, with the English dominating the Champions League and with a decline in “flair teams” achieving European success, is Lyon’s dependence on style going to hurt them in the long run? In the EPL, the football is faster and the physical engagement is stronger, and continued technical improvement (though I think the EPL is still far behind Spain, Italy, and France in this regard) have made the top four English teams consistent challengers for the European title.
Lyon have never been able to play defensively or push around their opponents with more than a modicum of success. They actually suck at it. The players spend so much time on build up play and on passing their opponents to death that they fail in the final third and worse, can’t cope with defensive and overly physical teams.

Admit it, you miss him.
I’ve always felt that the losses of Mahamadou Diarra and Michael Essien didn’t affect Lyon from a technical standpoint, but from a physical one, perhaps. Toulalan is a strong player who has more than his share of midfield bark, but he could do with a bit more bite (gosh I miss Fabio Santos). And the fact that Lyon weren’t interested in bringing in a rough and tough player to replace Fabio Santos (instead they got Marc Crosas) tells us that Lyon’s starting midfield next year will only feature one physical player.
So going back to the first question, is a 4-3-3 the only feasible option for us?
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Comments
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See its all in the reqruitement. Every team needs a bruiser, Real took Lyons, while Barca has Toure (although he is a hella talented bruiser) and Marquez. Milan has Gattuso, Inter Cambiasso, Roma De Rossi, Arsenal Flamini, Man U Hargreaves, Chelsea Obi Mikel, Bayern Demichelis etc. etc. Whether they start every game is down to the coach and how the team plays. While le Toule is not needed to be overly phsyical to dominate midfields in Ligue 1, most continental teams use either a very strong and physical DM or a “double pivot” as they call it in Spain of two holding players to in tandem do the dirty work and share attacking moves too. The problem lies in that with Santos gone, the real phsycial element is gone, which I would like to see back. Whether its Fabio Santos or a better player with such attributes I am indifferent too.
I disagree with playing Fabio Santos with Toulalan in a 4-3-3, its to much for a 3 man midfield. Playing the two together surely constitutes a 4-4-2, where less creativity is needed out of the center because there are two strikers. But a 4-3-3 needs a midfielder to supplement the striker atleast centrally, so with one doing that and to playign defensively, where is that link guy, the Carriere-Essien-Tiago and now Bodmer/Kallstrom guy?
Against English teams it seems silly to match there formation, but it has sometimes proven effective. If Benzema had a partner instead of Kongo Kim shooting from distance, he may have done more damage. Stretching the field with 4-3-3 is effective for defensively weak teams or overly offensive teams. But against the big teams that are equally adept at both disciplines, getting down to business in the center of the pitch and forcing the centerbacks to make decisions with two strikers is almost always more effective. 4-4-2 isnt overly offensive so it couldnt be held in contempt as risky in the Old Trafford tie, but without the adequate personnel and Perrin’s failing tactics whether it be 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it wasnt used. The coach makes a huge difference, hence Inter’s early exit, just like Reals, was down to better coaching from Liverpool and Roma over two legs. Lyon is a league team right now, not a knockout team.
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Also, Inara, Shaz and I would like your help on a post I am going to do on the main page about the leading talent of all Ligue 1 teams. I will email you the details later. Thanks.
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I think 4-3-3 is a kind of “home made” specialty.
If you want to build an important club like JMA want to, you have to have landmarks. A “style”, like you said Inara.
4-3-3 is really one of those things.
I’d love to see Benzema/Fred both starting strikers in the same game, and I still think we can do it occasionally, but we have to keep our soul.
4-3-3 is, to me.I think we have the greatest striker that France has never have. Henry, Cissé, Trezeguet are extraordinary players, but no one is as talented as Benzema will be in 3/4 years.
But we just have ONE striker who is so much a genius. Fred is a very good player, not a genius.
However in midfield, we have so much extraordinary players : Juni, Ederson, Bodmer, Toulalan, Fabio Santos, Crosas (maybe !)…
That REALLY would be a shame to take one off to play in a 4-4-2. And don’t forget they are utility midfielders : Bodmer can play in defense, Fabio Santos can be a DM or a AM, Ederson can play occasionally on a wing…
And I’m sure JMA can sell one of those little pearl an incredible price if they play and grow up 2 or 3 years. Something Like Diarra or Essien.At last, Ben Arfa and Keita are very offensive players. A 4-4-2 needs players on the wings who can defend minimum as well as an offensive midfielder. Hatem and Kader are closest than strikers, than defenders. We don’t really have the player for a 4-4-2, except Govou. We rather have players for a 4-2-4, but we cannot play like that, because we would have no backup for our front line.
That’s why I think we have to keep the 4-3-3 system.
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i think lyon should stick with the 4-3-3 as a primary system as well, many of the reasons which Jo mentioned above.
however, that being said I would also like to see lyon utilize different tactics more often. Inara, you mentioned in one of your CL match previews that lyon has a very predictable formation and lineup… It would be nice if the team could gradually start to experiment a bit more. Its unrealistic to think that we can continue to grow if we have no alternatives in the tactics department.
which brings me to my last point. i think we basically need a more experienced coach who is also an accomplished tactician.
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since this is build your own team, i might as well say it even though it is not really realistic: 3-5-2.
imagine this:
coupet
clerc - cris - squillaci
toulalan
juni/bodmer - ederson
keita - ben afra
fred - benzemanot quite sure about the defense, but man that is cool! also i believe Brazil used it in the 2002 world cup so it is not unheard of. is the 3 back setup so glaringly weak, with a patrolling DM, that this is not at all feasible? man it would be fun to at least see this in some league games.
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Inara - “so going back to the first question one, is a 4-3-3 the only feasible option for us? ”
Not if you buy one of my favorite players - Jean II Makoun.
Anyway, about the current formation. I really dont have a problem with it. I understand the need to have juninho and Kim in the middle and having toulalan as back up ( and a very good one i might add ). The only thing we need is another true Defensive midfielder in my opinion, I believed that Fabio Santos did very well with Lyon and fit well with our system ( even though he plays like a man with no common sense in Brazil at the moment ). I mean, look how dominate our midfield was when barcelona came to the Stade de Gerland, it was so cool.
With Kim potentially leaving and Ederson coming in, this is how i see the formation of the future for lyon
clerc—Squillaci—-Cris—-(Fill in Blank )
-(Fill in blank)-Toulalan-Bodmer—-
——–Ederson—-Keita/Ben Arfa——-
————-Benzema————–Posted from
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My Formation is a 4-5-1 ( forgot to mention that )
Three central midfielders, two attacking midfielders and one Legend……*Cough* i mean striker *cough*
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Don’t forget that Toulalan and Fabio Santos aren’t restricted to the DM role. Both can play as central mids further up the pitch. I personally thought that Lyon looked really good when both were on the pitch together.
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I also wanted to say that I agree with Jo. Lyon have always, ALWAYS relied on their midfield to win games. Even with Benzema and Ben Arfa exploding, I still think that Lyon’s best asset is a technical gifted midfield (when players are healthy and available). So to me, no matter what the formation, it’s important that the midfield be accomodated first, then the strikers.
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I’m also a fan of the 4-3-3, not just because it’s a Lyon thing but because I really like have three central mids. If your striker is good enough and your midfielders are good enough (and ours definitely are!), you only need one striker.
But like some others said, I do wish Lyon were flexible. The fact that we can almost always predict the lineup with a 95% accuracy rate makes it easier for opponents to outwit us tactically. Of course I’m not suggesting Rafa-esque rotation, and I do like the idea of a stable starting XI, but I would like to see Lyon utilize other formations - with success - in high stakes games. Whether it’s a 4-4-2 or a 3-5-2, our players need to be able to shift back and forth. That’s the difference between Lyon and other top teams, who can still get results even playing an unfamiliar formation.
Also, I would love to see a 4-3-1-2, even if its just in dinky French Cup matches. That way Ben Arfa could play in his best position (SS) behind Fred and Benzema. We’d still have three midfielders, though Lyon would lose their wingers and become narrow on the pitch (it wouldn’t matter too much since Ederson would be there, and Benzema drifts to the left anyway). So you could only use this against teams who attack through the center and not the sides. Still, it would be fun to try it,
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exactly. i dont think anyone in their right mind could argue that the 4-3-3 is not an effective formation for lyon.
but it doesn’t hurt to be more flexible if the situation calls for it.
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inara more rumors about Juninho and Sao Paulo (also they speak at a tv program to yesterday about that)
i know its fake but they speak about that all the time!!
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4-3-3 seems to be the most stable possibility for Lyon, which has built its team by buying (or forming) the appropriate players for it.
Eg: Grosso, Ben Arfa, Juninho, Keita, Clerc and maybe Ederson are not very appropriate 4-4-2 players.Posted from
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one thing that worries me is that at lyon, the tactics define the team in advance. what other clubs out there buy players based on a formation regardless of what the coach wants. neither perrin or houllier were able to change tactics at lyon, and when they tried, they got no support from the president or the players. it’s like the 4-3-3 is the rule at the club, and everyone has to fit around it. all recruitment revolves around it, which i think is very narrow minded and restrictive. maybe if lyon tried another formation and didn’t limit themselves to the philosphohy of “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” we might be able to hit that next step in our evolution.
we keep saying that our coach isn’t daring or aggressive enough, but anytime he tries something, we get on his back immediately. sure he lost a few times, but anytime you try something new, its going to take a while to work correctly.
i guess my point is that a club shouldn’t be defined by tactics. or what’s the point of hiring a good manager if he isn’t going to change things around tactically?
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Is it just me, or can anybody else see the names under the dots on the pitch?
Goals : Coupet
Defence : Reveillère - Squillaci - Cris
Defensive Midfielder : Toulalan
Midfield : Ben Arfa, Källström, Juninho
Right wing : Govou
Striker : Benzema
Left wing : Grossohttp://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7627/footballtacticsfrenchho6.jpg
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Shazback, I love the labeled pic. I didn’t think anyone else would take a close look at the picture - you deserve extra props for finding Grosso on there.
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Grosso was the easiest to find !

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I feel so special being mentioned in the blog!
lol
I’ll do a detailed post in a while.Posted from
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My main concern about all these options is, is Lyon a club where great players will happily sit on the bench? They clearly are at the likes of Chelsea, which is also a hot issue in the London club, Avram Grant playing Anelka on the wing, Lampard vs Ballack etc…
Well lets look at our options, back four is pretty much set in stone with Clerc and Revelliere happily rotated at right back. Find a replacement for Grosso, or at least a good back up. I’m personally a fan of Taiwo, but not many left backs can live up to Abidal.With formations, the root of it seems does Fred play better with a strike partner ala 4-4-2? Benzema is an awesome centre foward, but he’s a very capable left winger. If he gets annoyed because he thinks he should be playing up foward that’s a bad attitude. He’s only a kid really, not the coach. And the team is still winning games.
Funnily enough, the same debate is at Barcelona with Henry and co:
http://www.goal.com/en/articolo.aspx?contenutoid=618915Posted from
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That’s the thing, Lyon aren’t big enough (or wealthy enough) to keep talented players on the bench. That’s why it’s so hard for us to have a deep bench that’s talented. Look at Belhadj, Diarra, Keita, Bodmer, Fred, and basically any player who is kept from starting - they start chomping at the bits. In the positive cases (Keita, Bodmer, Fred), they channel that into really good performances and make a convincing case to start.
In unfortunate cases, they just can’t express their talent at Lyon and have to leave in order to keep playing. That’s why KK is going to pull an ultimatum on us this summer - play me or sell me. He was patient all year last year, coming off the bench in nearly every game, and he was rewarded this year by a starting spot. But with Bodmer and Ederson breathing down his neck, he might decide that if he’s going to be benched, he might as well do so at a bigger club.
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