The World is So Kroooool.
By: Inara | November 24th, 2008Lyon’s full-back crisis gets worse. WORSE! Is that even possible? From the OL website:
This afternoon’s MRI confirmed a rupture of the anterior cruciate ligament on Anthony Reveillere’s left knee. Consequently, his season for Lyon is over.
Reveillere can now hang out in Lyon’s very own hospital ward with Mathieu Bodmer, Cesar Delgado, Francois Clerc, Fabio Santos, and Miralem Pjanic. These six are all key first team players.
But the worst part is that there is still some uncertainty in the participation of Lamine Gassama and Fabio Grosso, the first of whom was slightly injured after the game against PSG and the second who missed the game entirely thanks to international duty with Italy. John Mensah, who recently returned from a long injury layoff, is still struggling for fitness as well. If they miss the Fiorentina match, Lyon are well and truly screwed.
IT IS JUST NOT FAIR. This is always happening to our players. Geez, we even changed the club doctor. Is it the fault of Robert Duverne, the fitness coach? Except he’s been at Lyon for over ten years and is also the fitness coach of Les Bleus. So just what is going on?
All I know is that Lyon might end up starting Timothee Kolodziejczak on the left and Sidney Govou on the right. Considering that Fiorentina’s Alberto Gilardino and Adrian Mutu really hurt us last time with their runs down the flanks, on Tuesday they just may end up raping Lyon instead.
I think I might be too depressed to write a preview for tomorrow. But I’ll try.
Category: Team News and Rumors
Tags: Anthony Reveillere, DOES GOD HATE LYON, Fabio Grosso, Injuries, Lamine Gassama, PSG ARE EVIL, Sidney Govou, Team News and Rumors, Timothée Kolodziejczak, WHY ARE WE SO UNLUCKYSubscribe
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Comments
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I thought Grosso had been dropped, with an excuse.
A lot of good it did OL.
Posted from
Italy
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I thought he had been dropped too, but it turns out it was because of an injury. He didn’t even make the bench in the PSG game, which wouldn’t have been the case if he was just being rested (since Lyon have no fullbacks to spare at the moment). He’s also listed as uncertain for Fiorentina on OLTV.
And yes, Gila does play in the center. What I meant was Fiorentina’s attackers really benefited from the space on Lyon’s flanks. It was like there was a big welcome mat.
Posted from
United States -
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!! Sorry(the noise I made when I heard the Rev. thing) we need to get fullbacks this winter. Bigtime!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted from
United States -
yea we need a heap load of fullbacks, any suggestions ?…were is ronan when you need him lmao
Posted from
United States -
ghislain, Lyon are having it bad, but it’s nothing actually amazing that six-nine of the Lyon first team have been injured over the past year and a half…
Arsenal had similar injury concerns with Hleb, Rosicky, Eduardo, Walcott, Van Persie, Senderos, Eboue, Denilson, Gilberto Silva, Song, Diaby, Sagna and Lehmann… Over the past 18 months.
Man U had Scholes, Hargreaves, Ronaldo, Saha, Giggs, Neville, Brown, Silvestre, Fletcher, Rooney and O’Shea injured over ths past 18 months too.
All this goes to show is that Lyon don’t have a deep enough squad in certain positions. Arsenal are having the same problems up front and in midfield : Van Persie, Rosicky, Walcott, Eboue, Eduardo… Add Adebayor (who only recently came back from injury) and you’ve got 6 of the best 8 or 9 midfielders/strikers Arsenal have. Lyon lost three full-backs (honestly, it’s not -that- bad, Man U also have lost Neville, Brown and Fabio, but there’s still Evra, O’Shea and Rafael…).
Posted from
China -
Good points, Shazback. Inter, too, have had horrible injury problems in the past year, except theirs have been focused on CBs rather than fullbacks — Esteban Cambiasso (who, by my count, is eighth choice at that position) — has already played in the middle of the back this season, and the fourth and fifth choices were regulars there for much of the second half of last season. It’s amazing how sometimes one position can just be decimated.
Posted from
United States -
You’re right Shazback. Many teams have serious injury problems. But, really, think about it. There’s a difference between a one month injury and a 6 MONTHS injury.
Do you believe that OL had 6 times 6 months injuries in the last 15 months ? (Coupet, Cleber Anderson, Cris, Clerc, Reveillere, Muller). That means every 2 months and a half, we lose a player for 6 months.
And you can add to them Fred (Many times), Fabio Santos (many times !), Grosso, Pjanic, Delgado, Toulalan, Mensah (many times), Govou, Bodmer, Keita… That’s 16 PLAYERS injured for more than one month (I didn’t count the “small injuries” of 1 or 2 weeks). Yes. That is a lot. Even if you compare with other big european teams.But this horrible news about Rothen is not what make me angry in this time.
I had really much things to say last days, but my job didn’t let me one second to come and posting here.So I’d just like to speak about Juninho red card. I don’t try to find an excuse for our captain, what he did is simply bad. HE should have temper himself.
But I just would like to say that you probably saw that Gassama is uncertain for tomorrow game. And you know why ?
If you can, rewatch the PSG / OL game, at the 74th minute. NO ONE of ALL the french medias spoke about that but you will see that Rothen got a YELLOW card because of a foul on the young Gassama.
That foul was EXACTLY THE SAME tackle Juninho did on Armand. Juni got a red. Rothen a yellow. That was a few minutes before Juni get his red. Why ? Because Rothen has been really nasty during all the game. And he finally hurted Gassama without having the red he deserved. That’s what made mad Juninho. Then he did the same thing to Armand… you know what happened.That’s still idiotic from Juni, but it’s important to know that.
Now Armand can run… Gassama might not tonight.
End of the Rothen / Gassama / Juninho Chapter.
What I finally wanted to say is that I know Gassama made a big mistake on that Giuly goal, but he impress me day after day. He’s only 19 yo, and I think he will become in 2 or 3 years one of the best french RB. Believe me.
He reminds me Abidal.God There’s so much things to say for me… So sad I haven’t time to write it and read all of you !
Tonight, veryyyy important game for us. Because if we can have just one point, we’ll be qualify. And our defence injury crisis will not be so grave because I’m sure Grosso and Gassama can be good in Ligue 1 until we get somebody this winter for the next rounds of CL (Chimbonda ?? OL seems to want him)
Allez l’OL !
Posted from
United States -
Hum… I meant : “This horrible news about REVEILLERE ins not what make me angry”
Sorry !Posted from
United States -
I don’t think Ghislain was saying that Lyon are the only team in the world to suffer so many prolonged injuries at the same time, but that no one seems to acknowledge the fact that despite such handicaps, Lyon still have a six point lead and the best defense in L1, are topping their CL group (albeit on goal differential) and need only a draw today to progress to the next round. People keep saying that Lyon are so much weaker and that there is no team spirit, but in reality the team has been very strong to have been able to cope as well as they have. Sure things haven’t been perfect (Rennes, Metz, PSG), but I don’t see how things could be any better given the sheer amount of key first team players missing. Instead, the focus is always on how L1 teams are victims of abuse from Lyon in some form or another, whether it’s skewed arbitration, a manipulative president, tough tackling players, financial bullying, excessive political clout, the coldest supporters, etc.
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United States -
Amen, Inara.
Posted from
Canada -
LOL at the tags.
Posted from
United States -
Inara, Jo, the thing is… pretty much evey club vying for a title in the top leagues this season has similar injury concerns.
Arsenal have lost Eduardo for 12 months (imagine 12 months without Benzema), lost Rosicky for 8 months, Hleb for 6 months early last season, Van Persie pretty much constantly over the past three years, Walcott for three months, Diaby for five months, Song for six months, Denilson and Gilberto Silva for two months last season, as well as all the normal 1-3 week “knocks” players will get. But they’ve got a normally deep squad.
Man U lost Ronaldo for 3 months (surgery), Hargreaves for 6 months, Brown for 8 months, Neville for 6 months, Saha pretty much constantly since he signed from Fulham, Silvestre for 5 months, Fletcher and O’Shea for 4 months, Giggs for 3 months, and all the usual knocks and things (Rooney had a metatarsal injury for 1 month, twice)…
As Martha pointed out, Inter could fill two hospitals and they’re still top of their league… And Real have Sneijder, Robben and a whole host of other ice-men to pamper.
I’m just saying that when you say “I haven’t seen ANY football team take a beating like Lyon have in the last 18 months”, you’re either not looking at other clubs, or you’re over-estimating Lyon’s current injury woes. I’m not a specialist, but I’m sure that if Arsenal right now have that many injuries, there must have been a point in a not-too-distant past when they had an injury list that would easily put Lyon’s to shame.
Thing is… Why should the media mention it? When Man U (or Rennes) have injury concerns, it’s normal. Clubs are expected to play through it. After being 1st 7 times in a row and spending over the double to build their squad than their contestants, I don’t find it particularly noteworthy that Lyon are having an “injury crisis” because they under-staffed at wing-back. If the club only has three decent wing-backs, it’s that they either can’t or don’t want more. Last season Man U won the European Double despite injuries to Fletcher, Neville, O’Shea, Silvestre, Hargreaves, Saha and Scholes each for more than five months, and Rooney, Anderson and Carrick out for over a month. Was it anything remarkable? Not really.
So yes, Lyon have good team spirit, and they’re doing well despite injuries. But there’s no “injury crisis” (Arsenal are on the verge of one if they have 2-3 more injured players). Just a lack of depth. letting your second/third-choice wing back play is not a “crisis”. Having two central defenders injured isn’t really either, when only one is a first-choice central defender. Even when both first-choice central defenders are injured, it’s only a crisis if it’s long-term for both of them (i.e. they’re both out for over 6 months).
The media isn’t going to be nice with Lyon. And quite frankly, it’s not their role. Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Inter, and to a lesser degree Barcelona, Juventus, Real Madrid and AC Milan all get their fair bit of stick, no matter what, even if their star striker just broke every bone in his body. Chelsea could have their entire starting XI injured, the media would still pounce on “big-spending Chelsea to outmuscle small club financially for wonderkid” or “Chelsea cheat xxx to get 3 points”… That’s just being a big club. Whenever Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho open their mouth, the media is going to pounce on it and try to twist it to fit the story they want to write (i.e. After being beaten by Stoke Wenger praised Stoke, and quickly said he was dissapointed that Stoke played so rough, but that Arsenal need to improve that aspect of their game. Next day the only thing the media had heard was that Wenger said Stoke had played rough, and criticized him for not being able to accept defeat and putting the blame on Stoke). It doesn’t have anything to do with how many injured players you have or anything.
tl;dr : I find the media is right in saying Lyon aren’t playing as well as last season/are weaker, regardless of injuries to the squad, since so far Lyon’s injury situation is nothing abnormal, save that it’s happened outside of the transfer season (unlike last season) and has hit a position that Lyon had extremely little cover for.
Posted from
China -
Look at the clubs you’re comparing Lyon to – Inter, United, Chelsea. These are clubs that can afford to have four or five good fullbacks. Lyon can’t. Or else Lyon would happily have a big talented squad too. Lyon’s problem is that they can’t afford to keep as many talented players on the bench. They get unhappy and want to leave, i.e. Belhadj last season. This summer Reveillere wanted to leave because he didn’t want to share with Reveillere. Boumsong!! threatened to leave if he didn’t get more playing time. And he hardly qualifies as an excellent player. The other problem is a matter of wages – Lyon can’t even afford to bench Silvestre because his wages are greater than that of most of Lyon’s starters.
So yes, bigger clubs have injury problems, and while it’s nice that you classify Lyon among them, financially and league wise, they don’t belong there yet. Lyon are among clubs like Sevilla, Roma, Atletico, etc, clubs that find it more difficult to afford to have quality cover.
And it is a crisis when all three RBs are injured and you have to play a CB there. When three of the four players in your backline are out of position, that sounds pretty dire to me. When you are an injury or suspension away from not being able to have a back line at all.
Posted from
United States -
Inara, Arsenal’s squad cost less than Lyon’s (last I checked, at least). Sure, you can put it down to league appeal, to fiscal measures or what you want, but if players like Belhadj don’t want to stay (I mean, Belhadj is a decent full-back, but far from a great player) then there’s a problem with how the staff organise their squad. Belhadj should be second left-back/left winger, and he should be on par to get 20+ games a season. Just like Reveillere/Clerc are on the right wing. Any club will face players that want more playing time, but a club that’s champion of their domestic division and hoping to go pretty far in the Champions’ League has arguments to convince them to stay : turnover due to various competitions, more money, etc. Boumsong was (understandably) annoyed because last season he was considered behind Bodmer in the picking order. Bodmer isn’t even a central defender. Reveillere/Clerc might be too close in level, but I doubt either will leave soon (just like Govou seems to be “on the verge” of leaving every season). Players like Silvestre are perhaps beyond Lyon’s financial reach, but there are lots who don’t get that big a pay-check, such as Givet who would be availible for Lyon. And if Givet is content to be 4th choice for Marseille, why wouldn’t he agree to be Lyon’s 4th choice central defender? Even Muller would fill that role, and he can play on the side too.
Unless I’m mistaken, the only defenders that are injured at Lyon are Reveillere and Clerc. Isn’t Gassama a right-back? Last season Rennes had to do without Hansson and Mensah for a few games at the back, so we played with M’Bia and then Cheyrou. It still wasn’t a crisis. It was just that Dreossi and Lacombe didn’t believe that Dembele was solid enough alongside Borne. We had the players, the coach decided a player out of position was still better. Gassama is 19, so it’s not like Lyon are facing the choice of playing a 16 year-old from the youth squad, but Puel still thinks that Mensah is better. Fine. But two injuries doesn’t make an injury crisis.
An extreme injury crisis would be what Middlesbrough had in 1996/97 when the club claimed to have 23 first-team players injured and thus cancelled at short notice the game against Blackburn. A less extreme but still very real injury crisis would be when Tottenham lost 14 first-team players to a norovirus infection in 2005/06.
Sevilla, Roma, Atletico… I’m positive they all have three right wing-backs (Konko, Prieta, Crespo, Dragutinovic for Sevilla, Cicinho, Panucci, Cassetti for Roma, Seitaridis, Heitinga and Ujfalusi for Atletico Madrid), and they’re also well equipped on the other flank of defence. I still think Lyon should be aiming higher than these clubs though.
Posted from
China -
In general, the EPL (and Serie A and La Liga) is a very great lure for many players, and the good ones are going to move unless they are guaranteed significant playing time and/or a lot of money at Lyon. Puel could sign a lot more players, but why would Lyon sign players like Givet or Muller? That’s even further away from their CL ambitions. It’s not just a question of quantity but of quality. The kind of players they do need as solid, reliable backups are exactly the kind they can’t sign to be backups because those players believe that they deserve to start since they are “downgrading” to France and to Lyon.
No matter how good squad management is, the good CL caliber players won’t stay in France just to sit on Lyon’s bench. They might for one season, but two? No. I love my club, but Lyon is still considered to be a stepping stone for the kind of players the club needs to win the CL. Money and allure play a great deal into that as well.
I’m guessing your definition of a crisis is when a club has to forfeit matches. Mine is simply when a club is frequently playing multiple players out of position because even the backups are unavailable, and each week, a different player ends up in the infirmary. Lyon aren’t alone in going through this, as even big clubs struggle. But Lyon are also handicapped in ways the others aren’t.
Lyon do have a more expensive squad than Arsenal, but unlike Arsenal, Lyon don’t buy many young players and prefer to get more established ones (which means higher transfer prices), so they don’t really bother with trying to find “hidden” gems since all of Lyon’s signings are well known. But while Lyon frequently outspend Wenger, Arsenal have a higher wage bill than Lyon. And anyway, Arsenal aren’t exactly collecting many trophies themselves and are anything but a reassuring example (in fact they’ve been pretty dire this season).
Posted from
United States -
For sure, the price of a squad is not how many you buy the player. You have to include how many the salary of the players is ! And I don’t think, in this way, that Lyon have a more expensive squad than Arsenal.
And sorry Shazback, you are mistaken about our last game. Gassama WAS injured, that’s why Mensah played instead of him. So we actually had our 3 RB injured.
And on the left, Grosso has been injured, that’s why we had to play Kolo, which is just 17 yo, and never played before with th professionnals.
So (to me) that really sounds like an injury crisis.We cannot just say that 2 or 3 other teams in the world have at least similar injuries to explain it’s not a crisis. In my mind, that’s too easy.
Posted from
France -
That’s the point I was going to make, and the difference in salaries (especially post-tax) and endorsement opportunities is one of the things that makes the leagues that Inara mentions above “a great lure” for Ligue 1 players.
Posted from
Italy -
Jo, I’m pretty sure I linked before on this blog to a document by the Union Financiere de France that compares tax in the UK, Italy, Spain, Germany, the USA and France for professional sports. It shows quite clearly that there is a small (about 5% IIRC) difference between France and England, but also that in France tax is lower than in Germany or Italy (Spain being the most welcoming). I can’t find the article now, but someone seems to have transcribed it on another forum : http://forums.france2.fr/france2/football/fiscalite-francaise-ligue1-sujet_21134_1.htm
For a 100,000 euro salary (monthly) pre-tax, in France the player recieves 55,700 euros and the club has to pay 121,600 euros. In England, the player would recieve 59,650 euros and the club would pay 112,700 euros. Yes, it is less, but the difference isn’t massive. And in Italy the figures speak for themselves : 48,800 for the player when the club coughs up 128,900 euros. Yet they still manage to have a few decent teams with good squads.
Also, something that has been introduced since is that sports clubs can pay their players 30% without tax as “image” fees. Yes, 30% off-tax. So instead of paying 100,000 euros, the club is better off paying only 70,000 euros with tax and giving the player 30,000 in “image” fees… With the obvious advantage that it’s less expensive for the club and the player recieves a -lot- more money. Recently, there has been discussion of a 50% fiscal tax “shield” that would also greatly help people who recieve large salaries (footballers being one of such categories).
Gassama traveled to Fiorentina (http://www.football365.fr/la-une/article_278207_Lyon-Le-groupe-face-a-la-Fiorentina.shtml), so I don’t think you can count him as “injured”.
Givet and/or Muller would be backups. If Givet joined Lyon, I wouldn’t expect him to play much. Maybe 5-6 league games and a few cup games, but not a central part of the campaign. He’s already doing that at Marseille, so where would he be “downgrading” if he joined Lyon? (Muller would even have been better, since he would have been a more experienced back-up whilst Gassama and Kolocejiak are still young, and he was already at the club)…
Lyon don’t need to buy brilliant backups from the EPL/Serie A/Liga, but just have more than three wing-backs (both sides). Belhadj would have been one, and I don’t see any reason why he was almost never played when he joined Lyon (Grosso is the #1 choice, but against sides from the bottom half of the table and before CL games, he might be in for a rest now and then, yet Belhadj only played 582 minutes, most of which he was not left back and/or came on as a substitute). Perrin’s choices are what pushed him out. And when he went on loan to Lens, he didn’t do too badly. So why doesn’t he want to stay? If it’s playing time, then Lyon need to choose : rotate with Grosso (before CL games, bottom-half teams, cup games), or sell him and bring in someone who -is- ready to wait on the sidelines for his time to come (just like Givet is ready to wait for Marseille to have seven injuries in central defence before he’ll get a game). Lyon’s choice to loan Belhadj left them with Grosso and Kolocejiak in that position… a very light amount of cover for a team that’s expected to challenge for 4 trophies this season.
It would be nice for Lyon to have CL-level backups (like Chelsea, who seemingly have a second XI good enough to play in the Champions’ League), but that’s a dream for most clubs. So you have your CL-level players, and behind them a League-level player (just like O’Shea, Fletcher and Park, or Bodmer, Kallstrom or Piquionne), and then young hopes or old players on the out (Pjanic, Tafer or Gassama). The League-level players will want more playing time, the CL-level players will want to be sure they are first choice, and the young players will want to prove themselves. But making the club tick (and choosing who plays when and how much) is the job of the club’s staff (mainly the manager). Some managers (i.e. obvious suspects, Mourinho, Capello et al.) are very good at creating an atmosphere within the club that makes the players feel valued, even when they play only a few minutes every year. Lyon might not have enough “appeal” to bring Mourinho or one of the well-known managers that are good at this to their side, but there are lots of less well known managers that are also good at this, even if they aren’t as good as Mourinho. If you’re making a CL-level player sit on the bench, something’s wrong. But when you’ve got nobody between your CL-level and your upcoming youngster, it’s equally problematic. Reveillere and Clerc’s injuries lead to a simple question : the youngster or an out-of-position league/CL-level player. The answer was that the out of position Mensah was better than Gassama. And it’ll likely stay that way.
If Lyon can’t be compared to any club in the Serie A/Liga/EPL because of the “attraction” of said league, who can Lyon be compared to? Bayern Munich? I believe Sagnol, Oddo, Lahm and Lell are there to deputise the flanks, with a few youngsters from Munich II or the youth team to fill in if there’s an injury.
Lyon is having bad luck and injuries in understaffed positions, but I wouldn’t call it an injury crisis, and certainly not the “worst ever seen”, as ghislain claimed. Lyon are doing well and showing why most people believe they’ll retain their title, by winning despite injuries to key players (proof that they don’t rely too much on their starting 11 to win each game, but that they have a few other decent players too).
Posted from
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Shazback, that’s a very interesting document, which goes against the received wisdom of French football clubs and the media (as one can tell from the reaction of many of the commentators). I’ll have to read it more closely.
One point on the Bayern comparison, though. Bayern’s revenues are around 50% more than OL’s. In particular, their television, sponsorship/merchandising and ticket revenues are significantly higher.
Posted from
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Indeed, extremely interesting and worthwhile. Merci mille fois for pointing us to it.
What it illustrates is that the much-discussed “tax disadvantage” of French clubs is not as significant as is widely believed (including by me before reading the data). I would argue that its continued prevalence in debates on the subject can be ascribed to a combination of factors including the fact that it used to be significantly worse before the reforms of the mid-2000s, the fact that AS Monaco’s anomalous tax position has been a source of rancor in French football since the end of WWII and the fact that it always serves those who pay taxes to make it appear that they are more burdensome than they are in fact.
Though, as the poster repeats multiple times, it all does come back to budgets, as I noted in my last post. And now that I have my copy of the Deloitte report to hand, I can note that Bayern’s revenue for 2006/07 was 223.3 million euro, compared to OL’s 140.6 million.
Posted from
Italy -
Ursus, you’ll then be able to see that Lyon’s revenue is one of the top 20 in Europe… And far greater than that of Sevilla or Atletico, begging the question as to “how much” more a player wants to play in Ligue 1 instead of La Liga…
Budgets are a large part of the problem for Lyon when competing in the Champions’ League, but on the point of backups their large financial power compared to other Ligue 1 sides should make it easy for them to bring in players from Le Mans, Rennes, Nancy or Toulouse that are substitutes/fringe players. Ederson, Pjanic, Delgado in midfield aren’t first choice, and probably won’t be for two-three seasons (unless many players are sold/retire). If they’re happy to stay, why isn’t Belhadj? He’s not better than those three, and he’s got far less competition in that position…
Posted from
United States -
That’s absolutely right, but you were comparing them to Bayern . . .
I think that it is extremely difficult to “explain” why some individuals are content to be “squad players” and others are not. There are simply too many highly personalised factors that can influence a player’s decision, even if one puts all economic arguments aside. A non-exclusive list off the top of my head would include comfort with the role; relationships with coaches and teammates; attitude towards the city/region/league; family pressure pro or con; advice of agents/advisors; media exposure/pressure; concern over international place/prospects, etc.
Even one of your obvious mathematical aptitude would be very hard pressed to quantify it.
I also think that OL has a particular issue that many/all of the other Top 20 teams don’t share, which is that they weren’t a “big” club when the current crop of players came of age in footballing terms. It is almost completely irrational, but it can be an important factor in shaping a player’s idea of where he “belongs”. Ben Arfa’s repeated assertions that OM are “bigger” than OL is just one very obvious example of a mentalite that I think is reasonably widespread among footballers of his generation.
Posted from
Italy -
Shazback, as I said before, Lyon can recruit bodies, but that is a waste because you can’t sign players to one year contracts. The club wants quality, as in players better than the ones they already have who will improve the club in the long run. To have good turnover, Lyon’s backups need to be at least near the level of the starters, and those are harder to find because that caliber of player already has significant interest in playing abroad.
Lyon failed to convince Jose Antonio Reyes to join them, who instead joined Atletico to sit on the bench. We couldn’t sign Diego Milito who chose to go to Napoli. Ribery went to Bayern. They failed to lure Palacio from Boca Juniors because he doesn’t play to come to France. Giovanni dos Santos went to Tottenham, etc. None of those were Champions League teams at the times of the transfers either. So league does play a role.
Also, you can’t compare midfielders and defenders. Defenders on average experience little turnover (which makes sense because you want a stable backline), and only in cup games or injuries do we see rotation. But in midfield, even bench players see significant game time. So a player like Ederson could accept being on the bench for a year (though I don’t think he’d accept it for another), but Mensah (assuming he becomes healthy) won’t be so thrilled to be relegated to the bench behind Cris and Boumsong.
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A pedant writes: Diego Milito is at Genoa, not Napoli.
Doesn’t weaken your point one iota.
Posted from
Italy -
Did Lyon even bid for Milito? Sorry to say so, but Genoa aren’t exactly a top club in Italy, and with Benzema and Fred (as well as Puel wanting Piquionne), I doubt Lyon even bidded for him (even moreso given Lyon usually play in a 4-3-3 and that there is a certain Tafer coming through the youth ranks…).
I disagree with you however on the point that we’re discussing “quality” here. When looking for a backup, of course the club would prefer to have as good a player as possible, but it’s rare that very good players accept to join a club to not be starters. So when looking for players who are second/third choice in their position, the club should look at players who aren’t on par with their first choice players, but are good enough to fill in when said first choice player is injured/tired/rested/on international duty. When Bocanegra goes off to the US squad, Rennes have to play Echiejile or Aubey. Neither are as good as Bocanegra, but one is an up-and coming youngster, whilst the other was recruited to provide cover for Bocanegra and Mangane/Hansson. Aubey isn’t first-choice, but he’s more than decent, so if Hansson gets injured, our defence won’t crumble.
What I’ve been saying since the beginning is that Lyon’s problems is that since Clerc was injured (11th Aug), on both wing-back positions they have a CL-level player, and behind just a “kid”. I’m not Nostradamus, but I can guess that the chances of the two CL-level players being 100% fit (and not suspended) for the whole six months Clerc was out is relatively small. I can also guess (again, Kolocjiczak and Gassama could have proved me wrong) that the “kids” aren’t up to playing top teams or CL matches, or at least it would make for an awkward start to their career. Lyon didn’t need to bring in Maicon and Evra, but just look through lesser Ligue 1 sides for defenders who were good enough to fill in (can play both wings, will accept to not be a starter, might only be there for one season)… Varrault, Sauget, Seube, even Jeunechamp would fit the bill. Good Ligue 1 players, not CL-level, but with enough experience to handle games if the “kid” isn’t considered good enough.
Lyon perhaps need more versatile defence back-ups. Reveillere can play on both wings, but he’s the only one (well, Mensah can do OK on either wing, but he’s not comfortable there) who is used to playing in more than one position. You want your defence to be stable, but injuries -will- happen. So why leave yourself with three good center-backs (Cris, Mensah, Boumsong), two good full-backs (Grosso, Reveillere) and then just kids? With Clerc fit it’s 6 for 4 places, I still don’t find that enough to challenge in 4 competitions.
Ursus, perhaps the “image” of Lyon is indeed what keeps players from joining… But I’m still not convinced. After all, of Juninho, Cris and Fred, who knew anything about Lyon when they were growing up? Clerc seems to have been more than happy to join, and again, I don’t remember Lyon being big when he grew up. Madrid, Barca, Manchester, Milan, Juventus and Liverpool (to name the most obvious) will have appeal that means players will do all they can to play for said club, and will more likely be happy on the bench there than anywhere else. As you note, some players are content to be on the bench (Givet at Marseille this season), whilst others would get in a fit if they even miss half a minute (Ben Arfa at Marseille this season). But I consider that’s something that the manager and the scouts must find out before signing the player. If Belhadj was told he’d be the first-choice full-back (remember, Lyon bought him before signing Grosso) and upon arriving at Lyon he’s told he’s second choice, it’s reasonable for him to not be impressed. However, if you approach a player and tell him that he’ll be a backup, the club will have a much better chance of seeing if he will accept it or not. Piquionne might have in that aspect been a good choice, since although he isn’t as good as Fred/Benzema (or even Milito), he’s prepared to sit on the bench and wait for his half-hour of glory every month, whilst Milito, Reyes or Palacio might have been crying to the media every time they didn’t start, or even when they played out of position!
I’m not saying Lyon should have signed another Clerc because Clerc got injured, nor that they should look for a player able to give Grosso a run for his money like Reveillere gives Clerc on the other wing. Just that after Clerc’s injury, it became clear that Lyon were understaffed in both wing-back positions (they already were at left-back, but without Clerc the right-back was also lacking), so it would have been understandable for Lyon to look to bring in a cover option (who can preferably play on both wings), on explicit terms that he might not get much playing time (Kolo/Gassama might heve been “good enough” in the end), and that he might be offloaded to another club at the end of the season.
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