Two Non-EU Spots Available
By: Inara | July 14th, 2007According to a recent interview by Aulas, Juninho will be getting his French passport while Cris will be getting a Portuguese one (did this take anyone by surprise? I had no idea Cris had Portuguese ancestry).
This means that Lyon will have two non-EU* spots available. Once again, the name Willian is circulating, especially since Corinthians are in a bit of a pickle and might have to give up either €8m or €8m worth of player (s) to Lyon.
Maybe one spot could also be used for Renato Augusto.
I can only hope!
* Called extra-communautaires in French, this refers to the amount of non-EU residents a team can have. In France, the number is four. However, this rule does not apply to African players, so neither Nadir Belhadj (Algeria) nor Kader Keita (Ivory Coast) are affected by it. At Lyon, these extra-com spaces seem to be taken up exclusively by Brazilians, and it’s been a very very long time since a non-Brazilian occupied one of those spots. It’s unlikely (though still possible) that will change anytime soon, as Lyon is proud of its Brazilian tradition.
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I’m surprised that Juninho didn’t apply for Portuguese citizenship instead of a French one, most Brazilians have at least some Portuguese in them. Anyway, what happened to Corinthians is sad (especially for a team with such a fan base as their’s) and Lyon will probably take advantage of the situation, I wouldn’t blame them either, Corinthians and MSI did try to screw them over.
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I’m all for a slightly more than optimistic outlook (Roma fan here, duh) but what are the chances that JMA is willing to outbid basically the entire EPL and a few sprinkled in La Liga as well for Augusto? Especially considering that ridiculous buyout clause. Though I’d love to see Roman Abramovich and JMA duke it out. Literally.
And quick question, isn’t it true that French law will only allow you to have one passport? So Juninho will have to renounce Brazilian citizenship to be a Frenchie? I thought it was true, I’ve read up on a lot of passport rules recently and I thought I saw that somewhere. When I was looking to apply for my Italian passport they said it would take 12-18 months to even get a response. Needless to say I started looking around to see if any of my ancestors had slept around the international circuit so I could claim another nationality quickly for a visa.
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Oh, and I love how 75% of the top clubs in Europe have a ’strong Brazilian tradition.’ It’s not a strong Brazilian tradition. The big clubs just want them all because Brazilians are freakin GOOD.
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AJ: Juninho got French citizenship because he’s been living in France for the past six years. As far as I’m aware, he doesn’t have Portuguese ancestry, or surely he would have gotten his passport by now. And JMA being the businessman he is, he won’t forgive Corinthians a single penny for their debt.
Chris: Well, I am slightly optimistic because the clubs that wanted Renato Augusto (MU, Liverpool, Barcelona, Chelsea, Real Madrid, etc), have already made purchases going over 50m+. The club that was hottest for him, MU, is about to land Tevez, which will bring their spending to over 70m. By the time the summer winds down and the end of the Brasileiro, hopefully Lyon will be the only ones willing to make a serious bid. His buyout clause is something like 30m, but Flamengo are short of cash, and rumors suggest they might be willing to let him go for less. Perhaps Lyon will offer Flamengo the option of keeping him on loan for another year (like what they did for Belhadj).
As for Brazilian tradition - at Lyon, it’s really true! The club’s run of success coincided with the arrival of Sonny Anderson, and they didn’t win a title until Juninho arrived. Also, Fred and Cris are two of Lyon’s best and most influential players, and during one game last season, there were five Brazilians on the field. Their influence has been so great on the city that the international school opened a Portuguese wing for their kids. It’s gotten to the point that the club doesn’t recruit in the rest of South America (an Argentine at Lyon? Surely not!). It’s slowly becoming like a Portuguese speaking Inter.
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to answer to Chris, you cannot have 2 european (=EU) citizenships (eg: Jonny Haliday was asking the belgium citizenship in order to avoid the french tax on the fortune), but you can have the french citizenship and another non-EU citizenships = then have both passports in the same time
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any rumor about a substitute for Squillaci, now that he is injured moreover….???
Have a nice WE!Posted from
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Really? Huh. If I remember correctly one of the main problems with Gonzalo Higuian was he was going to have to decide between Argentinian and French citizenship and he could not have both if he decided to play for France. Of course I could be wrong.
Or has Massimo Moratti had Argentina moved to Europe already?
I like your optimism regarding Renato Augusto, and I think one big factor you have going for you at Lyon is the Brazilian contingent, as well as the fact that you almost never hear Brazilians speak well of playing in England. The only person I can think of recently who has had sucess in the long run is Gilberto. But RA is supposedly a strong kid, so maybe he could adapt better than most (although many would say Julio Baptista should’ve adapted the best of any). I do tend to think one of the big boys will snatch him up. If he has Chelsea, ManU, Pool, Barca, Arsenal and Juve (think I heard something about Barca too - which would make sense), it’s unlikely to think Lyon could convince him to move to Ligue 1. For your sake I hope he does (JMA’s sake? Eh, not so much).
I was kidding about the Brazilian feel, I know Lyon has a long list of them. Roma has the same thing going, but you do have to admit a common theme throughout the top clubs in Europe is the presence of Brazilians on those rosters. Lyon is only one of many.
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Inara, I’m working on a piece on African soccer “schools” that buy and sell boys like livestock. I was wondering if you have any info on the history of how it came to be that there’s a non-European quota, but it doesn’t include Africans?
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it is 2 different things to have 2 passports and to play in the national team (A): it would like kind of strange if Camo played a world cup with Argentina and thereafter with Italia…
For national team, at the A level: once you have adopted a national team, you cannot change for another one.
But you can play for a national team under the A level (like espoirs , under 21, under 18, under 16 etc) and then play for the national team A of another country (like Kanouté who played with the France Espoirs, and finally accepted to play for his father’s country A national team) Algeria is a kind of specialist in “these transfers”: in Lyon Belhadj who grows up in Jura is in their team, and they are also doing the forcing to have Ben Arfa.Posted from
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I meant they said he would have to decide to gain denounce his Argentinian citizenship if he played for France. That even then he couldn’t get dual citizenship.
Nothing to actually do with the footy, sorry.
You’re probably right, because the media is wrong more often than not.
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Sounds they explain the wrong way: if he had accepted Domenech’s convocation to play with France national team A, he would have been forbid to play thereafter for the Argentinian National Team A: that’s why it was such a big deal for him to do such a choice!
Imagine do I prefer to play with Messi or with Henry…hum …finally he decided that Real Madrid’s bench was the best choice… in a way, I feel that he would be a kind of new Cambiasso that Real would try to sell after 2 years …and good by the dreams about national selections…Posted from
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http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F334.xhtml
Google translation from a text (a portion of it) from this website
The French law does not require that a foreigner become French gives up his nationality of origin or that a French having acquired a foreign nationality gives up French nationality this subject to the international treaties and in particular, within the framework of the Council of Europe, of the Convention of May 6, 1963 on the reduction of the cases of plurality of nationalities. This text institutes an automatic mechanism of loss of the nationality of origin in the event of voluntary acquisition of the nationality of a State contracting (it is for example the case for French national which having married a German national could not be binationale).Posted from
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Thanks a lot for clearing that up Mat.
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What I remember about the Higuain situation is that it was never a question of giving up his French passport - what made him such a valuable commodity at the time was that he had a French passport and so wouldn’t take up a non-EU spot - but that his NT choice would be permanent. Higuain played for Argentina’s youth levels, so that’s why it was still possible he plays for France.
Ben Arfa still qualifies to play for Tunisia but carries a French passport and wouldn’t have to give that up.
Mat, I’m sure the club will be looking into it. Even before his injury, people were wondering if Paillot would be good enough to be fourth choice CB. It also depends on how long it will take for Squillaci to heal. It’s not a big deal if he misses the rest of the pre-season, but if he’ll also be absent during the beginning of the real season, it might be cause for concern.
Chris, I’m crossing my fingers about Augusto. Once the big clubs get involved, it’s nearly impossible. So I’m hoping they don’t. That’s Lyon’s only chance. Renato Augusto is too much of a well known name to pick up on the sly like the others (though Fred at Cruzeiro was pursued by AC Milan, but he chose Lyon over them).
Laurie, I’ve always wondered about that, though I think it might have to do with the fact that French colonized most of Africa. But maybe someone else can answer, and I will look into it as well.
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What a player EU? => a player who has the nationality of one of the 25 Member States of the European Union. (Germany, Austria, Cyprus, Denmark, Spain, Estonia, Finland, France, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, the United Kingdom, Slovakia, Slovenia, Sweden, Czech Republic).
OR => a player who has a dual nationality in the obvious condition that at least one among it is that of a State of the EU. (example: a Portuguese brésilo/is entered like Community)
OR (and it is there that that “becomes complicated”) => a player who does not have a nationality “EU” but whose country from where it is originating signed agreements of association and co-operation with the EU (it is the case of the Maghreb countries, of Ex-USSR and Eastern Europe) or belonged to the States known as “ACP” (Cotonou stop, June 23, 2000).
* Country having signed European agreements of association: Bulgaria, Romania, Turkey (the other countries signatories at the time now returned in the EU).
* Country having ratified cooperation agreements: Algeria, Arménie, Azerbaïdjan, Bielorussia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Morocco, Moldavie, Ouzbékistan, Russia, Tunisia, Ukraine. * Country having signed the agreement of Cotonou: Africa - the Caribbean - the Pacific (ACP): South Africa, Angola, Antigua and Barbuda, the Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Benign, Botswana, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cameroun, Cap Verde, Central African Republic, the Comoros, Congo, Democratic Republic of Congo, Cook Islands, Ivory Coast, Djibouti, Domenica, Dominican Republic, Erythrée, Ethiopia, Fiji, Gabon, Gambia, Ghana, Grenade, Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Guinea Equatorial, Guyana, Haiti, Jamaica, Kenya, Kiribati, Lesotho, Liberia, Madagascar, Malawi, Mali, Marshall Islands, Mauritania, Island Maurice, Micronesia, Mozambique, Namibia, Nauru, Niger, Nigeria, Niue, Uganda, Palau, Guinea New Guinea-News, Rwanda, St Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, St Vincent and Grenadian, Samoa, Sao Tome E Principle, Senegal, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Solomon Islands, Sudan, Surinam, Swaziland, Tanzania, Chad, Togo, Tonga, Trinity and Tobago, Tuvalu, Vanuatu, Zambia, Zimbabwe. A player whose nationality is not enumerated above will thus be regarded as Community Extra. (A button “Etr” will apparaitra beside its name)
N.B.: Community an Extra player can return in the category “EU” in the condition of remaining several seasons in the same championship.
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That was a translation from : http://www.lunivers-de-lentraineur.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=115&Itemid=41
If I try to do a little legal explanation:
the Bosman case from the CJCE had already suppressed the quota of players by club concerning the players from european members countries.
Moreover this decision is extended by the CJCE Kolpak case based on an agreement between EU and Slovaquia where there was an “anti-discrimination clause” about the working conditions, consequently the Bosman’s consideration of unfair discrimination that are the quotas is applied to Slovaquian workers.
There is the same type of clause in the agreement between the EU and the ACP countries, then the same consequences about quotas on soccer’s players in the european clubs!
It is a kind of legal domino gamePosted from
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Being a trinationale UK, France, Eire, I can safely say that acquiring French nationality does not “erase” any other nationality, and that acquiring another nationality does not jeapardise French nationality.
However, should a person ask to be naturalised (for political, family or other reasons), then he does not acquire this nationality by ways previewed by bilateral conventions (long-term residency, birth on territory or ancestry), and as such can be asked to abandon his former nationalities.
With Juninho’s case, he has lived for 5 years in France, and competed for 5 years in Ligue 1. As such, he will be granted a French passport, and will not count as non-EU player. However, this is a “mechanical” procedure, and not an “instructed” procedure. Any person who stays for 5 years as a pro football player in France acquires a french passport. Therefore, this acquisition does not jeopardise his Brazilian nationality.
For Cris, he has probably proved portuguese ancestry, and in vertue of Portugal’s bilateral accords with Brazil will be granted Portuguese nationality as well as retaining his Brazilian nationality.
The problem many players have (Higuain is one) is that whilst players may have sevral civil nationalities recognised by civil states, FIFA only allows a player to compete for one A team in FIFA competitions for his life. Players in junior sides can change (until 21), but only to play in a competition of a level he has never appeared in (i.e. a U-17 player for France can change when he is 20 to become an Algerian international A), but this right can only be used once.
In Higuain’s case, he had appeared in Argentine U-19 teams, and France asked him to use this right to join France’s international A squad. However, this cannot jeopardise his French nationality, nor his Argentine nationality. The only thing was that if he played for France, he couldn’t play for Argentina’s international A squad… And the contrary.
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Well Juninho and Cris will be playing out their careers at Lyon so this is welcomed. Fabio Santos was terrible against Reading, surely he wont last the transfer window. Seems like Sabotage by Ged, with him and Baros. They both have been very poor. If we got rid of FabioSantos we could have 3 brazilian/south americans. But im more for using French players anyways. Renato Augusto was fit into Lyon’s playing style, and would be given time to adapt. He would also surely be loaned back to Flu for the year if he wanted to, Lyon is patient like that. A la Nilmar, who was suppossed to come back to Lyon after his loan at Corinthians, but he got involved with the illegit transfer and Lyon decided they didnt want a player of such terrible character. Anyways, I am saying this right now, Fabio Santos and Baros need to be shown the door in favor of two new players. My suggestion are Renato Augusto and Jimmy Briand.
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