Good Ship Lyon Sinks To Bottom of Group E
By: Inara | October 2nd, 2007I was going to do a post-match analysis, but given the comments in the previous post, it’s probably unnecessary at this point. Besides, I don’t know what sort of analysis I could offer because I’m at a loss as to what happened. Today’s loss to Rangers was not just unexpected but also disastrous.
But as some have pointed out, not all is lost as it’s still early in the season. Lyon can still qualify, of course, but it will require victories in three of the remaining fixtures and a draw in another. It also depends on the results of the other clubs. Both Juninho and Aulas admitted that UEFA Cup qualification is a more realistic goal, though that’s perhaps pessimism speaking.
The goals
I just want to say one more thing: it’s easy to blame Perrin (and I do) for tonight’s debacle, but another thing to keep in mind is that most of the players were utter crap and are partially responsible. Vercoutre, Bodmer, Anderson, Govou, etc, were not playing like the French champions they were supposed to be. Sure, there was a lot of bad luck, but a good team rises above bad luck and finds those results anyway. Lyon of 2006 was a team like that.
Anyway, to open up discussion, here are two questions:
1. What could Perrin have done differently?
2. How should Lyon respond?
Feel free to ask others or make different points.
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Comments
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Lets get one thing straight here, Rangers didnt just scrape a 1-0 win or that last night. We beat Lyon 3-0 and it was fully deserved. And to say Rangers are an “inferior” team how is that so?
We might not have any players of Juni or kallstroms quality but last night showed we were a better “team” than Lyon last night!!
We scored 3 good goals and were solid at the back.
And as for Juni diving that was a disgrace! If he has scored taht freekick it would have changed the game by his cheating!!
It was a great result for Rangers and being realistic we cant hope for any points against Barcelona and i feel that it could come down to the game against Lyon at Ibrox.
Although i do hope that Lyon beat stuttgart home and away and do Lyon and Rangers a favour!!
C’mon les blues!!!
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Salieri got part of the answers to OL disease
Lack of motivation: I agree
“Afraid of other teams. Not sure. I think that they don’t care loosing games. That’s crazy but that’s true. Listen to the players after lost games, that’s crystal clear. HOW THE HELL IS IT POSSIBLE? Listen to Perrin’s speech, you will understand. They need a coach who makes them part of a project. Someone who make them believe in future successesPosted from
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That’s result of transfer politics
Malouda Abidal Tiago Houllier – out
Keita grosso Bodmer Perrin – in
Result 0-6 in 2 matchesPosted from
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As Shazback said, Perrin is trying things. And they arent working. He should have been trying things in preseason, not in the CL. His selections and tactics dumbfound me, they are confusing to the players it seems to.
1. No DM? Bodmer is not a defensive midfielder, although a tigthy player, and he has filled in admirably at CB, he is by no means a DM. Kallstrom and Juninho provide little support for him defensively, and this being his first go at the position, i would have preferred Fabio Santos here, who is much more adept at being on his own to defend.
2. Baros up top? Benzema on the left? Or was it 4-4-2? I dont really know. You could say Benzema was on the left, but I say he was partnered with Baros too, with Kallstrom providing narrow coverage on the left. Why does Baros even play? He is terrible, we need to invest in another striker and sell him off immediately, he does not have what it takes for this level of play. Benzema should never be pushed out wide, granted he can roam over there if the play dictates, but he needs to be in the center. He is like Henry, he will drift to the wing for space and create a shot or assist. Watch his goal aga
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Woops, against Lens, he basically created that goal on the wing out of nothing. Perrin should realize that just because he drifts wide doesnt mean he wants to play wide.
3. Ben Arfa? Keita? Perrin needs to stick with 4-3-3- or 4-4-2, and if your gonna play 4-3-3 then put Ketia out there, not Govou. 4-4-2 should mean Ben Arfa plays, either on the left or in the hole. Why is Ben Arfa not getting a run on the left like Perrin promised at the start of the season? Because Perrin is flip flopping on what he wants in the team, and its costing us big time. He is out of his element tactically, he has never had this caliber of player to use and he doesnt seem to know how to use them properly.
4. Why did we buy Anderson? He was bad, real bad. Bodmer wasnt great either at CB but I would take Bodmer over Anderson at this point. Muller better hurry back from injury, Toto is drowning back there.
5. I am unconvinced that Reviellere was the best choice against Rangers. Clerc seems to have the class for the CL, and his attacking runs would pin back Rangers left side aka Beasley. I also have to say that Fabio Grosso looks like he is trying, but I dont think he is good enough at all. He is the first one sold when I get my hands on FIFA 08 this tuesday.
5. Juninho is a coward. Plain and simple, never admit defeat, your acting like a Frenchie. We can still qualify, I dont think Rangers will take points of Barca and maybe Stuttgart can take some points off them. If we have to win we will win, dont say we are playing for the UEFA Cup, we are Lyon damnit. Poor “leadership” as usual from him.
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Lyon are an inferior team to Barcelona. I’m not complaining. Lyon hammered Real Madrid two years in a row, yet Lyon are an inferior team to them. In terms of signings, money, league strength, and pedigree, yes, Rangers is not as good a team as Lyon – but those things don’t always have bearing on the pitch. No one is disputing that Rangers deserved to win last night! They showed the kind of mentality that OL were sorely lacking. Relax, Rangers fans.
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Jordo: Well, Aulas said last night that he won’t do anything rash. Anyway, I doubt Lyon will fire him, at least not until the group stages are over. I can’t imagine any manager wanting to come into the mess that is Lyon right now.
Pride of Lyon: It’s true the club has come really far, and now even the idea of defeat upsets us. But I think people are more upset about the attitude we saw on the pitch yesterday than the loss itself. It’s one thing to go down fighting, but Lyon just laid down and put a welcome mat in front of Vercoutre’s net. That’s what pissed people off.
I also agree about the rotation thing. I like that too, but why save it for the Champions League? That’s when you should go with the sure and tested, not the brand new.
lefutur: I don’t think you’re being defeatist. Based on what Lyon have been putting out, even a UEFA Cup spot seems out of reach. We all know the team is CAPABLE of still qualifying. But will the players step up is the big question. It was hard watching Lyon allow in so many goals and not even attempt to react. That’s not the team that we all love.
Laurent: Agreed on Perrin’s lack of authority. It was evident in the way he didn’t punish Juninho for leaving that video meeting early. Perrin is afraid of his players and is trying to keep the peace with them, but I think it’s just making it worse. And he doesn’t know how to motivate players. Don’t get me wrong, I think he’s a good coach, but one for a small club. He lacks the edge to take on a big club. Everyone knows I don’t like Houllier, but he knew how to manage players. He wasn’t afraid to put his top scorer in the reserves, bench Govou, Wiltord, etc. And he knew how to keep quarreling senior players on each others Christmas card lists.
Stevie Wilson: Play Lyon on a regular basis and then see if you can still call us merde. Thanks.
David: Of course Lyon aren’t the teams they were under Le Guen and Houllier. People should stop comparing. This is a different team with different players, and has the potential to be better. It takes time for the players to get used to each other – Anderson had his second start in an OL shirt yesterday, Bodmer played in the midfield for the second time all year, etc. The tactics are being worked out. And maybe Perrin isn’t the right guy. But it takes time to figure it out. The last few years have been all about continuing last year. Lyon are famous for their team spirit, and obviously there is something wrong in the dressing room if it’s not there right now. But they’ll get it back. And Juni’s dive has been discussed ad nauseum in the previous post. He doesn’t do stuff like that normally, but he was not in his right mind. Don’t tell me that a Rangers player has never done anything shady when under pressure. These things happen, it’s unfortunate, and it should never happen again.
Storm: That’s France’s problem – dealing with 10 men behind the ball. You’re right, Lyon spent most of the night in the Rangers’ half. But possession isn’t the same as winning. Lyon should know that by now because normally, they are also on the low end of possession (even against Real madrid both times, OL had something like 40% possession).
It’s true, the players Perrin had on the pitch should have worked out. Govou, Benzema, Kallstrom, Baros, Juninho, and Bodmer should have been able to create something. At least one damn goal. Lyon have to learn how to play against defensive sides. Everyone knows the trick of beating Lyon now, and that’s why L1 is so much harder for OL too – because that’s how people approach the game against Lyon.
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Shazback: On RMC, they said that Aulas, Perrin, and Lacombe will be lunching together to discuss what they can do and to take collective responsibility. Whatever that means. They want to make sure that they find the problem and solve it, since it’s clearly something deeper that can’t be fixed with getting new players. Perrin also wants to meet with the players one on one. Though I don’t know how much that will help.
What you said about Emon is very true. Perrin is putting his best players out there, and theoretically, they should get the job done. He’s trying different formations to see what works (though with bad timing). But somehow he can’t seem to motivate the players. I would have started Keita or Ben Arfa at the expense of Baros, though I understand why he started Baros – as a former EPL player and a guy who is stronger than Benzema, he might have been able to help.
I don’t understand Perrin’s reluctance on not using Fabio Santos. He’s more of a DM than Bodmer will ever be, and I would have preferred him in Bodmer’s place against Rangers. About Anderson…well, he didn’t play well but it’s his second game, new team, doesn’t understand French. He isn’t the defender we wanted, but he’s the one he could get. The club tried to get Heinze and even tried to get Pepe. Didn’t happen though. As for Vercoutre, well, I have made my feelings clear on him numerous occasions. If Lyon to be successful, they have to stop making emotional decisions like letting Vercoutre take over because he’s been waiting so patiently. Instead, they sell off Remy Riou, one of the best talents.
C: “They should be able to beat Lyon at Ibrox if Lyon play like they did last night.”
Despite OL’s lackluster performance, I don’t think you guys will be seeing a repeat. Lyon have played in tougher places than Ibrox and came away with a win, so Lyon fans will be hoping the team gets back into top gear, and by the time Lyon travel to Scotland, it will be December.
Salieri: I’m not sure how this happened. Lyon used to believe they could take on any team in the world. Remember last year, when Toulalan said, “Bring on Barca”? Those were the days. I think the entire team needs to buy those motivational “you can do it” tapes and listen to them instead of their ipods.
Jo: Well, Domenech aligned a defensive side against Scotland and it failed. So Perrin logically did the opposite…which also failed. It’s baffling really. Anyway, Rangers were playing for a draw and wouldn’t have bothered to come out of their own half at us. As the home side, we were obligated to draw them out since Lyon wasn’t able to afford a draw in the first place.
Del_Boy: As I said earlier, I have a lot of respect for Rangers. They deserved their win. But the results of the game were a total shock because Lyon were expected to win. Even Rangers fans have said that.
Laurent: Ironically, Perrin was brought into to help start out Lyon’s future project. What a laugh.
billi: Yeah but those players wanted to leave. Lyon tried to keep them. So there’s no point in wishing otherwise. Still, I think Bodmer is better than Tiago, and Keita would offer us an explosiveness that Malouda lacked if he got this act together. Abidal is a loss defensively, but he’s never offered us runs and crosses on the left.
Corey: As always you made a lot of really good points. I agree with almost everything. Perrin doesn’t know what team he wants, unlike Houllier, who simply used Le Guen’s team and didn’t bother changing tactics. But to expand on two of your points, in my preview, I also said I would have preferred Clerc. He is more likely to make runs to the box and has better crosses than Reveillere, who is more suited for an attacking side. Like when we go to Stuttgart, I’d prefer Reveillere.
And agree on Juninho. He’s shown that he doesn’t deserve that armband at the moment. I would like to see Toulalan with it, as he’s the only OL player who seems to give 100% on the pitch these days.
I know we’re missing Cris and Coupet, but Juni was the captain last year and did a better job of it too. I don’t know what happened to him this year. He’s really unhappy.
Oh, and it looks like Lyon may be selling Fred in January. Just great.
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Corey : “Plain and simple, never admit defeat, your acting like a Frenchie.”
Vietnam anyone? I think not admiting defeat is much more of an american feeling.
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Aulas’s statement on OL’s website:
Using Pierre Bideau, Ol’s press attache, as an intermediary, Jean Michel Aulas reacted to the defeat of his team yesterday evening against the Rangers: “It is a difficult defeat for the OL, and it complicates qualification for the knockout rounds, but anything is still possible. It is now necessary to carry on without mistakes in the next matches. If we finish third, the UEFA Cup will all the same represent a good challenge for the future. It shouldn’t be forgotten that the current situation is partly related to the many injuries.”
The OL president, who met this afternoon with Bernard Lacombe and Alain Perrin to examine the situation, stressed that “there is no crisis, just a questioning. Certain provisions were taken as well. Collective and individual discussions with staff and the players will take place in order to help the group leave this difficult situation.”
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MARSEILLE WON!!!!! HAHAHAHAHA FUCK YEAH! THIS IS GREAT FOR LIGUE 1! THEY DOMINATED SINCE KICKOFF!!! WHY CANT LYON PLAY LIKE THAT GODAMNIT!!!
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Your comments make for great reading, Inara. I watched the game and was stunned at how Lyon seemed to give up. And of course, Lyon is a better team than Rangers. As you say, that doesn’t mean that better teams can’t be beaten. Greece won Euro 04 but they were not a superior team (talent, experience, skill) to Italy, France, Portugal or Holland.
But it seems the Scots are creating this hoodoo against France and it’s leading them to arrogance and complacency, which is all to the good for Lyon and France.
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So if we sum up the scot logic of some scots here :
Rangers >>> Lyon >>> OM >>> Liverpool
Thus Rangers >>>>>>>>>>>> Liverpool
Right?
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Good job Evilo.
SPL>>>L1>>EPL
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Ok so, can somebody explain me something ?
Toulouse beats OL, this year. And Liverpool beats Toulouse.So Toulouse >>> OL >>> OM >>> Liverpool >>> Toulouse ?
That way of thinking is shit.
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No, no, no. It’s simply hegemony.
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If I drink enough malt, I’ll also believe that “Rangers >>> Lyon >>> OM >>> Liverpool.”
Though of course, as Evilo says, it’s all fantasy. That would be like saying that since Rennes beat Lyon last year, and Lyon beat Real Madrid last year, Rennes was a better team than Real Madrid last year and should have won La Liga instead.
And before I offend any Scots, because I mean in no way to disparage Rangers, as they are a good team and deserved their win, it’s just that these comments that suddenly Scottish football is better than French football and that Rangers are suddenly a class above Lyon are really annoying.
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It goes Rangers >>> Liverpool >>> Lyon >>> OM
EPL >>> SPL >>> >>> L1
France are our bitches, not England.
Hopefully when Rangers get through this group if OM can top the group they are in Rangers will get them!
Yepieeee! a pass to the next round for Rangers!!!
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That would be like saying that since Rennes beat Lyon last year, and Lyon beat Real Madrid last year, Rennes was a better team than Real Madrid last year and should have won La Liga instead.
But, but, but… We should have!
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Well, I am willing to admit that Lyon are a better team than Rangers, II would however say that Celtic are a better team than Lyon, they after all are the Scottish champions, not Rangers.
I don’t think there is much difference between the French and Scottish leagues. France is maybe slightly better but not very much.
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the scots are really starting to get on my nerves. i was at nevada smiths when scotland beat france a year ago in scotland and the guy next to me (who was a scot) purposely spilled his beer on me as he celebrated the goal. the french were outnumbered 10 to 1 in the bar, so what could i do?
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@ mark- i’d like to see a team at the bottom of the SPL thoroughly dominate Liverpool at Anfield.
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Celtic are better than Lyon? Come on. (BTW I am a Hearts fan here). I am really proud that both Rangers and Celtic won victories against superior opposition and that Scotland beat France twice in a year. But that doesn’t mean much when you think that neither Lyon or Milan have been playing at their best where our boys have been playing their hearts out. Milan always take it easy in the group stages (no offense but even Lille defeated them at the San Siro). Everyone knows Lyon are having problems off the pitch with injuries and manager issues. If Milan and Lyon had been at full strength I don’t think Rangers would have escaped even with a draw, and I think Milan would have gotten a win in Glasgow.
About the national team thing, there’s no way Scotland’s NT is better than France. France underestimated us and didn’t work as hard, but they are the world cup finalists and could have been winners if not for a bad penalty.
As for the league strength, Rangers and Celtic would be contenders for the Ligue 1 title, but after that, there is a big drop in quality in Scotland. But in France, it’s deep with unknown talent, mostly due to their great scouting and youth system. There’s a reason that France is higher than even Germany on UEFA’s seeding list.
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To all the French fans getting upset about Scottish comments about our football being better, Just relax. We hardly ever have sucess in Europe or International competition so we like to go over the top when we do. We know your league and international squad are realistically better but we rarely get a chance to celebrate so let us have a chance to boast for once.
As for the Rangers better than Lyon debate, Lyon on paper are obviously a better team with more talented players, but Rangers make up for it with passion, determination and team spirit. I realise Lyon are having problems right now and that aswell as the sort of high Scottish football is experiencing right now contributed to the result of Tuesday’s match.
No doubt Lyon on their day would have beaten us by several goals in France, but really I think Lyon will find a pretty difficult match when you play us in Glasgow although it will depend on how the teams fare from now on. If Rangers can manage to stay off the bottom of the group, the team morale may be high enough to inspire them to another win, but Lyon may have also overcome the problems with the team and turn things around. I guess we’ll have to wait and see, but I will look forward to it.
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C-
well done, summed it up in a nutshell
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United Kingdom
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